[snip]How about you, Win Hill? What do you think? ...Jim Thompson-- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens || Analog Innovations, Inc. | et || Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus || Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | || Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat || E-mail Icon at | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Sorry Jim, I don't think you are right this time. At almost all timescaps have zero 'net' charge on them. There's just charge separation.Charge conservation is just not that important.You can transfer the electric field energy to magnetic field energyand then back again.George H.

---In essence, yeah, since one fills them up with as many electrons asare needed to reverse the chemical reaction that happened whenelectrons were extracted from it, plus about 10-15% more, sincethere's no free lunch.------And lots of people use chargers that they don't even have to thinkabout.So what?One would expect though, in a technical (chuckle) forum like this,that units of measure would be used which would lead to lessconfusion.ISTR from another post that you said you routinely use ampere-secondswhen making measurements.I've never had an occasion where I needed to do that, and I'minterested in why you found it efficaceous.Can you elaborate? ------Matter of fact, I do.They just multiply 'em by 3.6 * 10e6 and charge me for kilowatt-hours.Easier for grunts to understand, I guess.JF

Win Hill: Inverse Marx Generator ??

J

John Larkin 16 years ago

It's conserved in some circuits, such as caps and resistances in series with no shunt paths, like Jim's ancient riddle (or is it ancient Jim's riddle?) It's not conserved in other cases, like my inductive energy transfer example, or when you just plain discharge a cap through a resistor.

That's not vaccillating, that's the way the world is. As I've said all along.

Energy is conserved. You can count on that.

What can I say, but be careful about using "conservation of charge" in circuit design? Maybe Jim will publish his mathematical proof that charge is always conserved in electronic circuits. Let's give him a few more weeks to work it up.

John

Vote

J

John Fields 16 years ago

I see... More dancing. What I was specifically referring to was your statement, above: "Yup. Energy is conserved in the restacking-the-caps case, but charge isn't. That was my simple point all along. Thanks for the confirmation." Is that still your opinion?

Vote

J

John Larkin 16 years ago

Do you charge batteries in coulombs? Lots of people use amp-hours.

From your power utility, do you get billed in joules?

John

Vote

J

John Larkin 16 years ago

Yup. If you put 1 coulomb into a circuit, make a zero-energy rearrangement and then discharge it, and you can't get a coulomb out, I can't see how you could derive anything useful, or safe, from the idea that charge is conserved.

Energy is conserved. That's useful.

John

Vote

A

AM 16 years ago

No. One charges batteries WITH coulombs.

And that would equate to 3600 coulombs.

Note how that number has significance with our time base, then consider why.

No, we get billed in dollars. FOR what is essentially joules.

It is getting to the point where they'll bill us dollars for millijoules. The greedy bastards.

Vote

A

AM 16 years ago

Bwuahahahahahaahahaha!

Vote

J

John Fields 16 years ago

In essence, yeah, since one fills them up with as many electrons as are needed to reverse the chemical reaction that happened when electrons were extracted from it, plus about 10-15% more, since there's no free lunch.

Vote

K

krw 16 years ago

What do you want from AlwaysWrong?

A milliampere-second still does not mean that a milliampere flowed for a second, AlwaysWrong. You're wrong, as always.

You're always wrong, AlwaysWrong.

We all understand that you were born that way, AlwaysWrong.

Vote

K

krw 16 years ago

Wrong.

Wrong again.

Wrong again. That's three strikes, AlwaysWrong.

Vote

K

krw 16 years ago

You would love it.

Vote

A

AM 16 years ago

Bullshit. If the light is on, it is emitting energy.

Period.

Vote

M

m II 16 years ago

A noble aspiration for one in your sandals, but pray tell, what makes you think he actually HAS an Elephant? Have you worked for him before?

mike

Vote

A

Artemus 16 years ago

Did you miss the part about the box, and the flashlight it contains, being a closed and isolated system? Art

Vote

A

Artemus 16 years ago

That's one. Charles's Law will give another. Art

Vote

A

AM 16 years ago

"Edwina... back in bowl!" --Prahka Lasa

Vote

A

AM 16 years ago

If the light is on, it is adding heat to the box.

Vote

G

Grant 16 years ago

Actually, over here we do, they base gas and electricity bills on the energy used over billing period, so gas of different types (say propane bottled gas vs piped natural gas) has a conversion factor applied to produce an equivalent Mj consumed amount ;) Gas bills had that Mj conversion factor stated as long as I remember.

So, yes!

Grant.

Vote

G

Grant 16 years ago

What, you have some different definition of 'discharged'?

Grant.

Vote

J

John Fields 16 years ago

He's not always wrong, and I don't understand why you guys don't cut him some slack. Here lately he was talking about easing up on his rancor, and he even asked a couple of questions neutrally, but all it seemed to gain him was more hostility. It's not like he doesn't want to be here, so if he makes mistakes, like we all do, why not just correct them, graciously, in order to help him see where his errors lie instead of just beating him up for making them.

Vote

A

Artemus 16 years ago

You really can't take the ball and run it to the goal line can you? Art

Vote

Win Hill: Inverse Marx Generator ??

Join the Discussion

Didn't find your answer?