I don't think you understand my situation. I am seldom in the office (there). I spend significant time here where cell coverage is poor which makes the cell phone hard to use. Even if the call isn't dropped, I have to stand on one side of the house and get lots of garbled words with me replying (like a Dave Barry joke) "What? What?" I've learned that most people, when you ask, "What?" will reply with a newly worked version of what they said when all I needed was to hear that one word that was garbled. Its like returning a book to the store because one page was smudged and they want to have the author rewrite the ending.
So keeping the landline until now was just so I didn't lose the phone number. In reality having that line in the office isn't that important. But if I can drag that phone connection around with me and it becomes much more useful again. Ideally it should have the same clarity as the land line. That shouldn't be too much to ask... is it?
Boiling that down to what we really need, we have:
Power on-off Channel up Channel down HDMI Volume up Volum down
Just curious: Was the need to adjust tint a remnant of the old NTSC day, pre-70's when TV sets didn't have a lot of smarts?
We use:
Power on-off Volume up Volume down
It's "rusted in place" on a country station.
Our system routes the currently playing movie everywhere, on a UHF channel. And our TV can't pause.
Either from the keypad of a phone while on the road or I walk over to the answering machine. It's good to get some exercise :-)
We don't need to do any of that. If a message is importnat we write it down and then hit reset.
Why would I want to do that? To see their faces when a big dog stick his head into the window frame?
We tend to know that when putting the laundry into the machine and then we are at the machine's front panel :-)
If you don't remember that it would make no difference whether you are at a keypad of a phone or at the irrigation controller. I installed it but it's my wife who knows what's on which zone.
By looking.
On the X-10 and on the computer we did it together. Works.
Nah, not to me.
You can have the menu announce it, or just remember it. I can remember numbers fairly easily and so can my wife. When I had an excruciating toothache on a Saturday my wife instantly recited the dentist's emergency home phone number, from memory. We hadn't used that in years. Same for the various nursing homes we visit as volunteers. You can't write down the codes because an Alzheimer's resident might find it and wander off. We memorize them.
Remembering words is more difficult. But that may also be because we switch between languages a lot.
That's the problem, we don't have a butler. So I prefer numbers. It's much faster.
So how does it work? You holler at the ceiling where there is a microphone? Our dogs would probably think "Now they are really off their rockers" :-)
I don't like to run around with one of those micro-Zeppelins stuck to my ear.
And then the soap slips out of your hand, you want to pick it up, some pain shoots up from the sciatica ... "S..T!" ... "Honey, I heard that. Didn't we agree not to use those words anymore?"
Well, but sometimes we sit in the backyard and watch a movie. And I'd like to be able to hit the pause button if one of us needs a fresh beer :-)
Jeff, I know it can work. I am using VoIP myself, here, several times a week via GoToMeeting and it works 98% of the time. Not 100% like POTS but that's almost good enough. When it quits we have a POTS dial-in as well. I would never subscribe to any such service that doesn't have a POTS backup. That is why we decided against using Skype.
But in the end I don't care why it doesn't work. What you described is something that sounds very complicated. With POTS or a PBX you can call ol' Leroy down the street and he'll fix it. With VoIP you have very few experts who really know this stuff well enough, as has been clearly evidenced by what you just described. Now there isn't a Jeff Liebermann in every town so a lot of folks will just never arrive at a nicely working VoIP. Because ol' Leroy doesn't know that SPI messes up VoIP. And the company IT policy may not even allow him to turn that off in the first place even if he knew. Then he'll be at wits end. It is too complicated for the situation. POTS isn't complicated, any phone service tech can fix that.
Same thing here: It often is not enabled. They set a cell range and you aren't supposed to use it farther than that. With CDMA you can in a pinch. You climb on a hilltop and bingo.
But the fact is, when that transition happened a lot of calls from clients to my office went ker-clunk. They had to dial again.
No, that one is in our kitchen, a Western Electric wall phone. With (disabled) crank, receiver, fully integrated notepad holder, pencil.
I still have a few AOL customers. I spend some time getting them out of trouble and showing them how to do things. AOL didn't eliminate the need to know how things work and why you can't send a gigabyte email attachment.
IP telephony is much the same. Packaged systems make easy things easier, but do nothing for dealing with the difficult and complex problems. If your needs are simple, an FXO/FXS box will suffice. You'll be fine as long as you don't try to do anything elaborate. However, if you need something complex, you'll need to either have the service company do it for you, or do it yourself.
Actually, that's not quite right. Even the simplest VoIP phone system comes with a control panel for managing the account, a page to handle the billing, and a button pushing cheat sheet for handling the voice mail. The basics are easy enough, but again, if you want to do anything complex, you'll need to know how it works.
Incidentally, the most common and apparently chronic failure mode that my customers seem to experience is forgetting to pay the bill.
Yes powerful, but hidden from prying eyes. It's a black box, with lots of goodies inside, capable of doing amazing things, but totally under the control of the service provider. It works well for satellite/cable TV and some VoIP providers (Vonage, Ooma) where the service provider does the provisioning.
As for "hard to do", I think it's impossible to stuff the genie back into its box. POTS telephony is simple and has survived largely in its original form for 150 years. However, add a mess of electronics into the box and the simplicity is gone. It's much like the cell phone transitions from MTS, IMTS, RCC, AMPS, 1G ... 4G, etc. At every step of the way, users of the older technology were complaining that the new technology was so complicated that they wanted their dinosaur phone back. I see the same thing moving users, often kicking and screaming from older versions of Windoze to the latest greatest. What they want, and possibly what you want, are all the features of the new systems, without the learning curve and maintenance headaches of the transition. That's not going to happen.
None of the plug-n-pray VoIP vendors allow that. They don't want to support a mixed bag of customer owned hardware. Ooma and Vonage certainly do not allow user owned hardware. They don't even allow softphones. They sell what they can support, and no more.
Maybe. I don't think the margins in selling VoIP minutes is sufficient to provide full service telephony at bargain basement prices. I've looked at the numbers and found it amazing that VoIP providers are able to stay afloat. There's also considerable competition due to minimal regulation.
As for providing quality service, I don't think anyone will argue that VoIP quality is lacking compared to POTS telephony. If you want audio quality, reliability, repair service, and universal availability, POTS is the answer. If you can live with a lower level of these, at a reduced cost, VoIP becomes attractive. I don't think any of the VoIP vendors will provide an SLA (service level agreement) which guarantees five 9's or better reliability, but I might be wrong.
Walmart carries a selection of services and devices: I don't know anything about ClearCall(?). The problem with comparing vendors is that the VoIP feature list is huge. If the vendor is using an Asterisk switch, the feature sets will be very close or even identical. If the vendor is using some other switch, there may be substantial differences.
Nobody follows the rules. Such rules are there so that if the VoIP service vendor needs a reason to pull the plug on the customers, they have the necessary ammunition. The other reason is that the tax structure is different for home and business users.
Yep. I pass on 100.0% of my taxes to my customers. Some rule requires that they disclose all taxes passed on to their customers. Normally, this would be done invisibly as part of the cost of doing business. However, customers want to know what they're paying for, so the taxes are itemized on the bill. Then they complain about paying for the service providers taxes. Well yes, that's the way it works.
Yep. I don't want to get into the USF (universal service fund) debate.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Two reasons. One, the issue I'm addressing is the ISP, not the VOIP provider. The point is that if my ISP works for her phone, it works for VOIP. The other is that her place is part of package, cell phone plus $10 a month gets her the VOIP phone. I don't want another cell provider.
Or I can use open source software for all of the above and it also works just as well. Why would I want to buy all that stuff when I can use open source and get *better* support???
Yes, exactly!
Really? I don't need to know anything about Windows to keep it working? You basic premise is totally flawed.
I'm not sure which you are talking about here, this would apply to either opens source or commercial products.
Yeah, if you say so. You analogy doesn't work because the premise that you have to take on responsibility for technology working in order to save money is fundamentally flawed. Do you build your own cars? No, because they are best built in a large factory with highly efficient machinery that even most companies can't afford.
Internet services are the same way. The low cost providers are selling crude packages requiring you to "do it yourself" because the market is not mature. A provider large enough will be able to gain economy of scale and provide VOIP services at a decent price and quality while still offering a package that the average consumer can appreciate and use.
Ten years ago the average user needed someone knowledgeable to set up their network. Now if Aunt Minnie can't do it herself, she gets her nephew or niece to do it because it's that simple.
There is no reason for VOIP software and hardware to be difficult to setup regardless of what some may tell you. The market simply needs to mature enough so that consumers will only accept plug and play products. VOIP is still very much not mainstream, but that will change.
The test is easy enough. However, interpreting the results is tricky.
True. I do best with the technology, not the users of the technology. I'm the wrong person to be discussion what you want to buy. However, see me when it goes awry, when it costs too much, or when it blows up.
Like I said previously, there are vendors that cater to plug-n-play installations like yours. Ooma and Vonage are two examples.
I recall reading some ancient Roman lament about the complexity of modern society. The price of progress is complexity and yes you do need to know how to program a phone (or have someone do it for you).
Yeah, something like that. If you're going to make a proper decision as to which VoIP vendor to use, some knowledge of the technology and infrastructure would be helpful. After all, this is a technical newsgroup. However, if you're going convenience shopping, and are making your purchase decision on the basis of the price, company web site, reviews, and whether the color of the box matches your furniture, methinks you could do better. Yeah, I'm disappointed.
I pay $6.25/month (actually $75/year) for Future-Nine.com service. In effect, I'm NOT paying the difference between a full service provider and Future-Nine to NOT pay someone to do what I can easily do myself. That works out to about $20/month savings or $240/year savings.
I wasn't suggesting a total immersion in VoIP technology. Just some buzzwords and understanding of how things work so that you can make a proper decision.
Probably true. However, there are a substantial number of customers that just want minimal PSTN gateway service, without committing to a bulk purchase of wholesale minutes, that will keep such small vendors alive. These customers usually know how it all works and can handle their own systems. I'm one of those as are some of my friends and competitors.
Let's go through the features that I actually use on my "system".
I have a 4 line VoIP phone in the office. Linksys SPA941. Line 1 is my Future-Nine number. Line 2 is an extension off Asterisk switch located at a customers. Line 3 is an extension off an Asterisk switch located in Israel. Line 4 is for direct SIP connections and testing.
As I previously mentioned, I have 3 instruments, in 3 different locations, all setup on the same phone number. When a call comes in, it rings at all 3 locations. I only pay for 1 phone number and account
My voice mail is delivered by email as a WAV file.
I maintain a blacklist of undesirable phone numbers. Nothing fancy as I just send the junk calls to voicemail and skim through them when I have time (in case I missed something important).
I use a SIP softphone and Skype on my laptop and smartphone. All the features that I have in my office are available on my laptop. I also carry a PAP2 ATA for travel. Getting it to work on a hotel or coffee shop system is a bit tricky, but not impossible.
I use DND (do not disturb) feature when ummm... I don't want to be interrupted. Push a button on the phone and everything goes to voicemail.
I have a system where I can record the entire phone call. This has become quite handy for finger pointing exercises and blame assignment. This is not provided by my VoIP service provider.
See anything useful?
Resistance is futile. You will be educated (in VoIP).
I've installed a few of these for such situations. If the service is poor, they will help. If the service is non-existent, it won't help: Yagi or panel antenna on the roof. RG-6a/u coax to the box. About
50ft indoor range. Photo of the insides:
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
So I assume at the "here" loation you don't have a landline, only at the "there" location where you really don't need it. Why not move the "there" landline to "here"? A friend of mine has it set up so it always rings through on his cell. He can pick up either receiver, the cell or his POTS phone. I am sure this can also be arranged with a VoIP carrier, except that I personally wouldn't trust that technology 100%.
Running them completely parallel should not be a technical problem but it's probably not a big enough market (for whatever reason) that the telcos don't offer it. If you want to be able to pick up a call on a POTS or VoIP phone and then at the spur of the moment be able to continue the call on your cell and walk away from the house you could possibly use a conference call service for that. But your POTS or VoIP would need to be able to reroute the call to that conference service on the fly.
So do mine. But there have been cases where certain numbers we no longer reachable after they switcher to some sort of supposedly "better" deal. It can be really bad with the 1010-numbers.
That link was posted before. It uses Java and I don't have Java on my browser.
Maybe I should ask you to set me up with a provider and an adapter? Do you understand what I want? What would you charge me to make it work?
The reviews of Ooma are not good and Vonage is overpriced for my needs at $30 a month plus I think taxes. Why is it no one can tell you in advance what the taxes are?
I don't actually have a "decor" so I don't need to match any colors. Does that make you feel better? ;)
Yeah, but Future Nine requires you to be knowledgeable in the operation of the system and I'm not. That one in particular I can't even figure out what they charge and what I have to buy. I bet you can't either unless you read it off your statement. Their web site is horrible.
I don't think "Just some buzzwords and understanding of how things work" is sufficient for picking a vendor. My problem is the vendors don't explain their service well enough for *anyone* to know what they offer and what they charge. For example, I still don't know if I have to pay for E911 service with Callcentric after two emails from them.
I told them what I was thinking of buying and asked if that required E911 activation and fees...
"Regarding 911, in general, if you are using our services within the US/ Canada and have at least one service under your account (whether it is an inbound service, or an outbound service, or if you are using our services for faxing, or if you are using our services for forwarding), as per FCC/ CRTC regulation, we are required to provide you with the 911 service, as mentioned on the following FAQ
formatting link
"
Was that a yes or a no? They qualify this with "and have at least one service under your account"... what does that mean? Why would I have an account without a service? So if I get incoming calls only I still have to pay for E911 even though I can't call 911???
There is no need to consider your system since I won't be using anything remotely like your system. How about considering *my* system? One adapter and a POTS phone, maybe two since that seems to be a fairly standard service provided at no extra cost.
Mostly no except for the three locations. I might find a use for softphone when I am not at any of my locations but am using the laptop on the internet.
Not this way. I expect it will be even more painful.
Wow! $400 times two. My roommate has ATT and I'm on Verizon, so we would need nearly $1000 worth of equipment to improve the signal. I think VOIP is a better solution. Cell phone suck even when they get a good signal in my opinion. On the other hand, my roommate lives on his iPhone.
Joerg, you obviously don't need/want an automation system. Hopefully, you will just "drop dead" (not meant in a mean-spirited way!) some day and never have to suffer with: vision loss, paralysis, stroke, tremor, or any of the other "loss of ability" that would benefit from having help performing the tasks that we all have to perform in the course of our normal days.
Watching a friend being *lifted* into bed -- unable to move more and more parts of her body as ALS works its ravages on her nervous system -- makes it painfully obvious how easily and often lives are needlessly complicated by the *lack* of these sorts of "aids".
Of course, when/if you find yourself in this situation, it will probably be too late for you to make any changes in your environment -- other than hiring some *human* help to perform the tasks that *could* have been performed by something far less expensive (and INVASIVE). Or, you may just grumble and wonder why no one addressed these problems, before: "Gee, it's so EASY! All you need to do is..."
Good luck with that "drop dead" prospect! :>
["I want to die peacefully, in my sleep, like Grandpa. Not screaming in terror like the 42 people on the bus he was driving at the time!"]
I do get a little tired of answering questions already answered. I exist in *both* places, just not often in the office. Plus I exist in other places too at various times.
I *HATE* talking on the cell. Voice quality is always poor and when the signal is poor (like around here) it is *terrible*. I just had a call from a colleague who complained about the sharp noises in his ear due to the flipped bits.
The telcos *do* offer it. But if the two phones aren't in the same dialing area (whatever the goofy phone company name for that is) they charge through the nose!
I would say you are trying to make this very complicated and it's not. I think VOIP solves all the problems I am looking to solve. Once I realized I could take the little box with me and use it anywhere I have Internet that made it a done deal. Now I just need to find a provider I can be happy with.
I do, and a few elements are in place. Some commercial stuff I threw out again on account of it being unreliable (X-10).
My eyes are starting to lose the near-field performance. I can still see things far a way that other people can't but even for cooking I now need glasses. For SMT soldering a USB scope, and so on.
Got a friend like that, too, except in his case it is MS. But there you need much different things than we discussed here. Being able to control a TV or the garage door via the LAN or whatever is the least of their concerns. Getting a Hoyer lift installed is.
Realistically we won't live in this house anymore when we get to that stage. I am a believer in downsizing in time, or going to assisted living, not doggedly hanging on to an achieved lifestyle. Whether I'll be able to realize when that time has come is another matter.
Don't make jokes about that, it happened. Except it was a truck and the driver went into diabetic shock, with the foot stuck on the accelerator.
Well, then good luck with a VoIP solution. Ooma has a good reputation. Besides Jim the late Joel Koltner from our NG was also quite happy with it, he and his wife had switched to that years ago.
I couldn't find anything that does not use Java. You can measure jitter using Wireshark to sniff VoIP traffic. I've never tried it:
Another method is to us JPerf (xjPerf). Unfortunately, the preferred graphical user interface in Jperf requires Java. However, iPerf is command line and should work. There are some notes and sample outputs for jitter at: (search for jitter). See Scenario #3.
Note that you do NOT need to sniff a VoIP UDP packet stream, as in the Wireshark test. There are Mac, Windoze, and Linux versions of Iperf available.
What you should do is setup a typical computah in Iperf server mode somewhere on the internet and run the client at your end. You won't have the benefits of QoS unless you use the standard SIP port numbers. Don't do that on a corporate LAN or where VoIP sessions are active or you will make some new enemies. If you can't get anyone to cooperate, bug me and I'll throw together a test server in the office (time permitting).
I'm on vacation and expect to be buried in paying work for at least 2 weeks. I probably won't have time.
About 80% yes. The big mysteries are the characteristics of the
900MHz link, potential congestion due to limited bandwidth, and coexistence with other applications. The last one is critical as I'm finding that bandwidth hogs, such Bitorrent and DropBox are real problems. We would need to talk on the phone first.
Dunno. My shop rate is $75/hr for bench work. This would probably turn into building and testing something at my office, and ship everything to you via UPS. I don't like doing it like that because there's always an oversight. Please switch to email if you want to continue this.
Plan B might be easier. We talk. I recommend a service provider that also delivers hardware. You sign up for a 30 day trial and just see if it works for you. There will be install and network complications, but I can hand them using remote control software (Teamviewer).
Careful with VoIP reviews. Users have the expectation that VoIP will be "just like POTS". You can come close, but not in every area. For example, I once read a scathing denunciation of some VoIP vendor by a user complaining that support was not open after midnight and that nobody offered to drive several hundred miles to her house to fix her phones. Also, one line reviews can usually be discarded.
If Ooma and Vonage are inadequate, there are smaller providers that will also sell you hardware. I'm not thrilled with those that supply VoIP routers. That solves the QoS setup and port forwarding problems, but also creates coexistence problem with other common devices. The problem is that I don't know whom else to recommend. I don't do many appliance type VoIP installation.
Because the courts decided that taxes should be calculated by the customers address, and not the vendors. So if you deal with a national vendor, they have to calculate the taxes to include all the state and local taxes required at the buyers location. They also have to pay all those taxes to the various taxing agencies, but you don't see any of that.
No. You probably have an "ambience", "theme", or "style" to replace your missing "decor". Either way it has to match. It's not really a trivial problem. Trying to find a place to put the black boxes and wires is a major part of an installation. Vendors don't make it any easier by putting smooth rounded top on their boxes, so nothing can placed on top of their box. At least the hi-fi and home theater designers have recognized the benefits of stacking boxes, but that hasn't come to the attention of network appliance designers quite yet.
Incidentally, I usually carry at least 2 new routers in my vehicle. One is black (Linksys) while the other is white (Netgear). I've had to amuse myself for many minutes while the homeowner considers the relative merits of each color.
Correct on all counts. Being the lowest priced vendor has its costs.
True. But I think you got my point. You need to at least know something about the technology to ask the right questions.
True. I must admit that even I don't understand some rate schedules.
For those that roll their own, no explanation is necessary. For those that don't roll their own, no explanation is possible.
Kinda looks like E911 service is mandatory, bundled, and billed as part of the monthly charges. "You must register with Callcentric the physical location where you will utilize your service for each Callcentric account. (...) You will register your initial location of use when you purchase a rate plan or a phone number."
Yeah, not very clear at all. It kinda reads like it is assumed that everyone will get E911 service.
An account is a login and a monthly invoice. A service is a single phone number. You can have many services or phone numbers under a single account. Not the best choice words, but good enough methinks.
The usual way such things are done is to first create an account (so they can send you a bill) and then add services to the account. It's much the same with some cellular MVNO's such as PagePlus.
If you only subscribe to call-in service, it is my understanding that certain outgoing numbers still function, such as 611 and 911. However, I have to check on that first as it varies with vendor. The assumption is that 911 *ALWAYS* works, even on POTS lines used exclusively for DSL, unactivated cell phones, and some pay phones.
I thought you wanted a shopping list of features that you might want to consider adding or using?
Boring... Ok, get a Linksys PAP2-NA. It's cheap, easy to configure, plenty of versatility, lots of online help, small, portable, and supported by literally all the VoIP vendors. About $35. Make sure it's a real PAP2-NA as you don't want one that's vendor locked to a service provider. Configure it and sign up for an account with any vendor that doesn't have annual contracts. Try it for a month and see what happens.
You might look into Callcentric "extensions" which are much the same as simultaneous ring:
No pain, no gain. The only difference between drinking water and drowning is the rate at which the water is consumed. Try going a bit slower on the VoIP learning exercise and it may be somewhat less painful.
Nope. Only one device is needed. The one I mentioned does 800/1900 Mhz on all the service providers except Nextel. However, it will not do 4G data on 700/1700/2100/etc. You can find them on eBay for about $240.
Show the zBoost page to your roommate and maybe he'll buy one and let you use it.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
With FOSS, well linux distros, you can pick one that doesn't upgrade much. FreeBSD for instance. On a web server, less is more. Because a server spends all it's time on the public internet, every program is an attack vector.
Regarding routers, buy one that runs DDWRT or the other similar open source firmware. That way, your old router has a path to upgrade. Otherwise the manufacturer won't bother to upgrade your firmware because they already made their money.
Power supplies do not have to be crap. They are crap because they OEM/ODM farms them out to fly by night firms that in turn have them OEMd by the worst of the Chinese assembly houses. This is true of your basic wall wart. Not so much with the power supply for your notebook.
When I met someone who did QA at a software company, my reply was "Oh, I didn't know software has QA. I figured they let the customers test it." Amongst all the peddlers, Oracle has to be the worst at this.
If people knew the hidden taxes they paid, they would freak. On gas in California, there are several taxes, and you end up being taxed on the tax. I haven't seen this documented (the press doesn't have the time to do anything other than rewrite press releases). There is a refinery tax. I guess you would call that a wholesale tax. Since a lot of California gas leaves the state, you can't blame Ca. for taxing the refiners. However, they don't credit this tax back to those in California. Then you pay a gas tax at the pump, plus a sales tax that includes tax on the federal and state gas tax. The same gas gets piped to Nevada and sells for much less than in California. The press says there are no refineries in Nevada, but I found out that is not true. But there are no significant refineries like you have in LA and the bay area.
Funny thing about Nevada refineries is you find them in the areas where Nevada pumps oil. The Great Basin for example. So you have gas that doesn't have a picoliter of OPEC oil in it, yet sells for the same price as the rest of the state. I've done the Reno to Las Vegas run a few times, and once in a while the podunk towns that get Nevada refined gas don't get around to jacking up the price to match the rest of the state.
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