Low Cost VOIP Providers

Aug 14, 2013 174 Replies

Lots of ways to energize a relay after loss of (primary) power! You just need *secondary* power -- whether from a big cap or a "backup battery" that is busy trying to keep your VoIP gateway running during a short? power outage (and, just before it realizes it can't keep itself UP any longer, throws the relay before shutting down)

Again, if you've already got the electronics there doing other things, what is the cost of a few hundred bytes of ROM? (for the algorithm) You've already assumed the cost of the *relay*...

Positive. The cord is on the desk here -- sans handset and base!

Nobody sees the color of the carpet in the trunk of my car, either. Why didn't the manufacturer opt to put whatever he had lying around in the shop in there when he built the vehicle? I'm sure he could have saved a few pennies...

I also like all my tires "mounted white" or "mounted black" -- not some convenient mixture of the two. :>

Yup. That's how things are back East. All the utilities hang. And, each time a drunk buys a telephone pole, someone loses something for some period of time...

OK. I recall seeing banks of batteries. And some sort of

*motor* in continuous motion (I think something to do with ring?)

I would *hope* so! It's been >40 years since I was there! :>

Ha! Yet, probably, still fully functional!

I have a Vonage line for the business, that includes an 800 number. It is strictly a by the minute line, and usually averages about $21 a month. Quality of the call correlates pretty well with the health of your internet connection...

Some of the basic piezo-ringer phones are amazingly loud. When on full it knocks you out of bed like the whistles and trumpets at boot camp did.

We have a genuine 1927 Western Electric wall phone in the kitchen. Works. Except you can't dial out, on account of a non-existent dialer. They hadn't been invented yet. Had to disconnect the crank, of course.

[...]

Make sure it's not an old septic tank :-)

Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I am actually thinking about having both DSL and cable modem. Then I could use cable and fall back to DSL if that goes bad. But DSL has crept up to $38/mo now. It'll probably climb more because they are losing market share. I don't think they've got LTE yet out here. That would be the other option, drop DSL, get cable and have one smart phone contract that allows a USB LTE stick in the laptop. Just for backup.

Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Yeah, something like that would work. Assuming a 5 year payback on investment and $0.50/year savings, can you build such a device for $2.50? If not, burning the power is cheaper.

Not really. The only thing I've assumed is that the device has to be more efficient than buring $0.50/year in power.

Yep. A 90VAC 20Hz generator. The device was geared and was also used to produce dial tone, busy signal, and various alerts. There should be some details here, but I don't want to look right now: I also may have something in my collection of BSP's (Bell System Practices).

Continuous ring voltage was available on all the frames. It wasn't difficult for me to resist the temptation to harass someone deserving with a dose of continuous ringing since it would be obvious where the continuous ring had originated.

Some parts probably are. Due to the long depreciable life required by the IRS for CO equipment, the stuff has to used for many years beyond obsolescence. My guess is that being used really means apply power at least once per year. So, I guess they turn everything once every year, blow a few fuses, and then turn it off.

Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

I do something similar. I have one phone with a hotspot plan on it. If my main internet connection goes down I turn on smart phone hotspot. I dont have everything but enough for me and the other half to keep working until the main service comes back up. It's not cheap but worth it for the backup capabilities. Plus we can always do email from the phones.

Chisolm Republic of Texas

The relay is necessary regardless -- you need to be able to conditionally reconnect an analog phone in the event of a prolonged outage, etc. So, you also need a driver to engage the relay (trip a latching relay, etc.)

The cost then becomes one of the software to decide *when* to trip it (you can buy a whole processor for $2.50! :> )

In a mass produced device, I would imagine some "circuit breaker" style plastic button would pop up as an indicator that the relay has been tripped *and* a means by which the user can

*manually* reset the relay after the outage (unless he never uses that feature) [I don't worry about bringing things to market. Just identifying the issues that need to be eventually addressed!]

A business that rebuilt 1A2 phones went out of business a few years ago, and owed me money. I took what I could get from them. The standard cord stretches to 7', and retacts to about two feet.

Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

FWIW, during our flood last month when power was off for about 10 hours, tethering notebooks to cellular data only lasted for some hours before dying. The cable boxes on poles were flashing their red trouble lights after 5-6 hours too. Nothing like the reliability of phone lines, water and NG utilities. I still have dial-up account, but I didn't try it (was too busy trying to rig up a supply for the sump pump).

There's free Wifi at most coffee shops (at least half a dozen within a short drive, many of them 24/7) but they close their doors if the power goes out (a fairly rare occurence, maybe once a decade for that length of outage).

Some routers have an auto-rollover WAN capability if you need redundancy (gets expensive though).

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

We don't subscribe to cable -- too few hours in a day to spend them watching TV :>

In a jam, I could fall back to dialup access to several "private" systems that I have accounts on. Or, drive 2 miles to the public library for access to their WiFi (and wired) network. Or, a mile to the Kinkos or gelateria for their wireless, etc.

But, it's just as easy to live without the access for a few days! :>

We lost our natural gas supply last winter (or the winter before? I lose track of time :> ). Eery sensation -- you don't *expect* gas to be unavailable. Complicated (and CAUSED!) by an exceptional cold spell which drove demand up to levels that the supply couldn't accommodate. IIRC, they ended up shutting *off* the supply to parts of town so the rest of town had usable pressure.

I keep several large 12V batteries (some from cars, others gelled electrolyte from electric wheelchairs, etc.) topped off in the garage from a solar panel. Normally used to run the pump for rainwater harvesting (paying for electricity to pump harvested water seems like it defeats the purpose!).

But, in an outage, I drag ~1.5KVA UPS's out to the garage and plug the batteries into the UPS's in lieu of the little dinky batteries normally present in the UPS's. Neighbors get a bit annoyed seeing the house lit up while they are in the dark :> (perhaps the only

*good* reason to have CFL's on hand. I've yet to have a battery exhausted with them as loads!)

IIRC, many sump pumps have provisions for battery operation (for precisely the reason you've encountered)

Bummer. "Unsecured debt". Always amazing to see how folks are so willing to walk away from their obligations! :<

(I think every person should incorporate. Often!)

Appears they probably go for about $5-10 as NOS (eBay, etc.) -- of course, folks will want as much as they can get for them! : The

Sounds about right. I'd have guessed 6 feet but how much you stretch it is obviously a subjective matter.

If you were local I'd swap you some (excellent!) baked goods for one :) OTOH, all that fat and sugar really isn't good for anyone... :<

Maybe I can dumb this down a bit. I assume the free calls are only to people with SIP phones. If you need to connect to a POTS, there is a charge.

VOIP/SIP is complicated. My ISP has been trying to get me over to their VOIP for years, since that is their specialty. It just seems like too much work for me for no real savings since I have way too many minutes on my cellphone.

But here is something to contemplate. There are SIP apps for smartphones. You could get a plan like that cheap $30 T-mobile plan that only has 100 minutes of voice, and then use SIP from your phone on its data plan to use the VOIP vendor directly, or maybe VPN to your router and then VOIP as if you were at your house. Basically that is what google voice does, well except for them spying on you.

If you built a new house, hell yeah, just SIP all your phones and put an Asterik box in a closest somewhere. This is the future of telephony. In fact, AT$T claimed they were going to just dump pots and make their phone system totally digital. Of course they would bill you just like it was POTS.

There are people you can pay to set up VOIP systems. A friend of mine has done a number of large commercial VOIPs, even a campus one with security phones and direct connection to the cops HT if needed. But my point is you just pay someone to do this if it sounds too complicated.

This is how the game is played. If you can't do it yourself, you pay somebody to do it. That could be simply paying Ma Bell a high monthly rate, or it could be paying a company to set up the SIP.

If you go to WalMart, they have some contraption that is a like a wired cellphone. I saw it when I was looking at MNVOs before deciding just to renew my cellular contract. It is a box that is a voice only cellphone. You pay $15 a month for phone service from StraightTalk. I never met anyone that used it, so I can't vouch for it.

That is what most people don't realize these days. Cell phones are not a reliable backup in a longer outage. Once the tower run out of electricity the cell phone becomes a little brick and being able to re-chareg it from the car will not help.

The dial-up is only good if it connects to a modem in some distant city. I doubt that the local Missy Bell or ISP will UPS-feed the steampunk modem bank.

Mine not too expensive one even has that, but only to a dial-up modem.

Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/

That's problem #2. We do not have any interest whatsoever in their TV offerings and they don't really want to sell Internet without it.

Those will usually be out as well. At least that's how it is here when a larger outage occurs.

The LTE or DSL backup for me would only be if the cable Internet goes down because their last-mile infrastructure is a bit haphazard.

Yup. When Gray "Gray-out" Davis was still governor and screwed up the CA electricity market we got used to continue life sans power. One can cook a 4-5 burner meal in a Weber grill over charcoal, done it. that was a bit decadent but the power went outside the "normal" rolling black-outs just after my wife started to cook. Back then I felt like we had moved to Romania.

Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/

They just resell air time on one of the cellular networks. Basically, a docking station with the CDMA phone built-in (tethering). You plug it into your home POTS wiring in the same way as an ATA VoIP adapter. If you can tolerate the typical cellular audio quality and don't use an analog fax, it might work.

Maybe it would help to see where such things are going. My crystal ball needs a workout.

Shared wireless broadband is a concept that has been kicked around since the early 1990's. The first version was for a service provider to hang LMDS (27.5 - 31.3 GHz) radios on the poles, and provide short range (last 100ft) video, phone, and data service. There would be no wires going into the house and everything would be wireless. The concept was suppose to give some competition to the incumbent telco monopolies, but never took hold. Currently, LMDS is mostly used for backhaul and fiber backup:

Of course, there were problems. Not enough bandwidth to do the job, somewhat beyond state of the art at the time, and high cost. What made it unpopular was the realization that it wouldn't scale into becoming a 100% replacement for copper because of difficulties with frequency re-use. It's not totally dead yet as companies do keep trying:

The answer to the frequency re-use problem arrived with discovery of the unlicensed 67 to 64 GHz band. 60 GHz is the major atmospheric oxygen absorption hole. RF doesn't go very far in the 60 Ghz band, making frequency re-use possible and probably practical: About -10 dB/km. Add -5 dB/km more if it's raining. Not much effect if the radios are close but really lossy over any distance. Chipsets, prototypes, and consortia are already available:

The first use will probably be indoor wireless HDMI for wireless TV displays and computer monitors. The next step will probably be the promised integrated services (video, phone, data), initially inside the house from indoor wired access points, but later from service providers from outside on the poles.

Whether it will happen depends of course on the economics of the service and the ability of service providers to provide a fiber backhaul on the poles, both of which are currently unknown.

Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Yup. Though I am told you can get some "really really basic" TV service -- and just don't hook up a TV! (I suspect they want TV subscribers because "that's their business" and I imagine they also get a kickback from advertisers, etc. by selling your TV viewing habits, etc.

We seldom have large outages. They are sometimes *prolonged* (e.g., the last one was a result of the main distribution transformer for the neighborhood catching fire!) but usually just "this feed".

E.g., the folks around the corner are fed from a different branch so our lights will often be out while theirs are on -- or vice versa.

We keep 50 pounds of charcoal on hand (dry). Partly for the few times we grill outdoors (ribs, etc). But, also, as a means for getting hot food, boiling water, etc. during an outage.

I've been looking to pick up a small, single burner, propane "camp stove" for the bug-out-bag. I figure I always have bottled propane on hand anyway for the torch. Opting for something like a stove that burns white gas would mean I would have to store that *just* for use with the stove (wasteful if we never need the stove!)

Last outage, we tried using the toaster oven with a UPS. Worked OK (resistive load) but was awfully wasteful of that "reserve power". Next time I may try the microwave (more efficient use of power) but I'm not sure how reactive that load would be and how much I'd have to derate a UPS's capabilities to safely use one!

Probably, although they can get your habits only if you use their converter and it has a calling-home feature. Basic-cable has no box, I believe.

Here we have very little in localized outages. It's mostly a wildfire or something like that and then the whole village is out.

There hasn't been a winter which we didn't enter with at least 200lbs on hand. Because in winter charcoal is expensive, there won't be any sales, and I am a year-round barbecuer. When it is really cold and the wood stove cranks all day I often steal charcoal from that. Burning wood down to charcoal is also an option but even if "free" from yard cuttings that would be wasting energy.

Propane grills are for wusses :-)

Nah. Real men gather wood, make a fire, open a can of beer and then cook over the fire.

Fire up the old Weber. It's amazing what that can cook. Tonight we will bake bread in it again, followed by spicy chicken wings that will be eaten along with the fresh and still warm bread. Maybe also cheese-filled jalapenos.

Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Kinda hard to lug 50 pounds of charcoal *out* in case of an emergency! (I'd rather allocate that 50 pounds to something more important! :> )

We've set up our bug-out-bags for different layers of response. E.g., if we have to shelter-in-place, then we have access to everything in the house and just need some place where we can

*reliably* find the sorts of items that we ONLY need in case of an emergency.

If we have to *drive* out of the area, then we can probably only carry the items that we've had the forethought to pre-pack (assume emergency means "hurry"!). So, all the BoB's get thrown in the car along with two 5G containers of water (that we have to fill "as we depart").

If the car breaks down, runs out of gas (eventually) or if we have to leave here on foot, then we have a subset of the BoBs that we will take with us. I.e., always trying to take as much as is *convenient* -- without overburdening ourselves in the process.

A single burner propane stove and a few bottles of propane take up far less space/weight than an equivalent volume of briquettes (also generates a hotter heat, *faster* -- e.g., to sterilize a knife, boil utensils, etc.)

In an emergency, I'm not keen on carrying one pound cans of beer just so I can catch a buzz while fleeing :>

If we're operating without power, gas, etc., I'm probably not in the mood for a leisurely meal outdoors! I'd be more interested in keeping the house buttoned up (as cool or as warm as it is going to be in the absence of auxillary heating/cooling) and getting what needs to be done as efficiently as possible.

My "merit badge" days are *long* behind me!! :>

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