Low Cost VOIP Providers

I am using Pioneer long distance service. Not voip ,but long distance at 3 cents a minute.

Dan

I'm on the cheapest plan at $75/year. I've been a customer for about

4 years. I've also setup accounts for several of my customers. A few problems occasionally, but nothing catastrophic or chronic. If you need tech support and hand holding, forget it and find another VoIP provider.

I suggest that you check your internet connection for jitter before attempting VoIP. Run the test several times at various times of the day: Use G.711 (uncompressed). Due to their method of rate limiting, Comcast cable internet can be particularly bad and erratic for VoIP. Also, please make sure that you have QoS configured in your router so that SIP packets get priority (or just reserve some bandwidth for SIP).

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

First of May I changed from Centurylink (nee Qwest) to Ooma. I went Premier, so I'm effectively $12.28/month (each line, I have two, prepaid rate).

Nice features, including a personalized reject list, since the Federal DoNotCall is a farce.

Internet down? Automatically forwards to my cellphone. ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142   Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

And a joke. I stopped reporting the calls because it does no good. Now I look at the CID and, if it looks unfamiliar, I simply answer and hang up immediately to stop the annoying ringing.

A friend brings her phone with her when she visits and it works ok through my router and service. She has Comcast at home and it works ok there too except that it drops once a day at about some given time. Her VPN also drops at the same time. I think she said she got one or two drops on my system too, but I don't recall for sure.

So I think the connection is ok for VOIP. I just need to find a decent plan.

What is SIP? I see this listed at the future-nine site, "Free outgoing SIP calls". But the lowest plan charges per minute. So what is an SIP call? I looked it up and I don't get why they are free. Are they computer to computer and don't go through the PSTN network?

Their prices seem good but their site is not very clear. For example most plans charge a monthly fee. The "Pay as you go" plan has no monthly fee and charges per minute. But they charge monthly for a US phone number... what? Doesn't having a phone imply that you have a number? How is that different from charging a monthly fee?

Oh, I just read the "learn about us" page and see they now have E911 service... as of 2009! But no mention of this on the main page.

Still, if you say they work well I'll consider them. I just wish they made their plans a bit more clear.

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Rick

I wouldn't blow off Jeff's comment about using that visualware test. Many ISPs provide jittery data. I'm on Megapath (a VOIP provider though I don't have their service and they have their detractors). I get jitter in the 200us to 500us range. I could do broadcast grade VOIP if I wanted to. A cable modem will be in the 30ms to 50ms range. Comcast does special routing for their own VOIP service. It is not the same as using their data.

SIP has a wiki:

Most modern businesses use SIP and a linux box to act as the PBX. Or use something like Ringcentral. If we are talking about a home user, I don't see SIP being all that handy. There are all sorts of phone plans for home use, or just use a cellphone. For a SOHO, I would say the goal is to get one phase of AT$T out of your life.

SIP phones? Well, they talk SIP. Hook 'em up to a network and beat your brain trying to set up Asterik. SIP phones are old hat enough that they show up in Silicon Valley surplus stores.

All those annoying call hide behind a CLEC. But so do a lot of legit businesses. I wouldn't hang up on them immediately unless you are forcing them to go to voicemail. Rachel from Credit Card Services doesn't like voicemail.

Black lists (and white lists) are essentially ineffective. E.g., it's relatively easy to spoof a CID so a telemarketer could call with a different CID each day, etc. (i.e., black list will never be up-to-date -- unless you simply want to exclude your next-door neighbor! :-/ )

Similarly, friends/colleagues/clients/family could call from a "foreign" (unrecognized) CID and fail to satisfy white list criteria.

I.e., you need an authentication mechanism that isn't tied to CID. And, that doesn't require *you* to constantly update "tables".

I've been piecing together strategies I have used over the years in the design of the telecom system, here.

Incoming calls go to the phone system -- not the "phones". I.e., the phone system decides when to *ring* a phone (because that event is a disturbance and one that no one on the outside should be able to initiate!).

Robocalls are handled by requiring interaction: "Press one to be connected to the answering machine" tick tick tick tick... drop line, unconditionally. (of course, the next caller might be told to press *7*!)

Folks who *should* be able to get through can authenticate themselves to the system (TT/speak an identifying token) and the system can handle their calls as appropriate for the person involved, time of day, whether or not the called party is home/available, etc.

I.e., the phone system has to act like a "secretary" -- *screening* your calls on your behalf and disposing/routing them as required ("Oh, hi, Betty. He's left a message explicitly for *you*: he's reserved a table at Flanagan's for 7:30 this evening...")

I haven't yet found a dual FXS/FXO on which to implement this, though. I had originally hoped for a free-standing box (e.g., dual PSTN on one side, ethernet on the other -- plus a pair of handset "feedthroughs" to handle outages) like I've done for the DTV interface to the network, but the latency across it is unacceptable (with DTV, the latency is all "one way" so falls out of the equation!)

So, you know her, too. After two or three times of encountering my process, she never called back.

That's why I provide my cell number to important contacts. If I somehow make a mistake and dump them on my business phone, then they can contact me anyway.

I didn't blow it off, I can't run it. It requires Java and I've removed Java from my browser. Be that a good thing or a bad thing, it is done and I'm not putting it back until I hear the all clear.

This doesn't tell me anything that I need to know to understand the usage of "SIP call" in the context it was used.

Great, all I need now is to understand what is meant by "SIP calls".

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Rick

SIP is "Yet Another Protocol". One designed to implement the sorts of features that you would encounter in a "high end PBX" -- but, operating over IP networks (instead of hard-wired copper to the PBX!). Contrast this with Skype's protocol...

It lets you initiate calls, receive calls, "transfer" calls, etc. (calls can be all sorts of multimedia, not just "voice").

Just like having a HTTP-capable browser allows you to view web pages, a SIP-enabled IP phone lets you participate in voice comms over IP. E.g., you could have a gopher-enabled client to access similar types of information "on the 'net" but it wouldn't be able to access information served in HTTP format! (similarly, an HTTP-enabled client/browser wouldn't be able to access gopher services -- if any are still running! :> )

All you need to know is whether or not the handset you are using to make your calls (or the ATA, etc. acting on your behalf) supports SIP.

I've been using two, for various purposes. I have an "outbound only, pay by-the-minute as you go" account with Future Nine which we use for most of our non-local calling (US and international). Outbound rates in the US are on the order of a penny a minute. I can hit this one via my Asterisk server (e.g. from home or when roving with my iPad), and one of my devices has a second set of credentials which can access and use it directly if I don't want to route the call through my home system.

A couple of years ago I switched my wife's low-usage business number over from a landline, to a VoIP DID from Vitelity. Porting the number was straightforward. I chose the "flat fee per month for the DID, plus cost-per-minute as actually used", prepaid. We pay (I think) $1.50/month for the line, $1.50 for a local directory listing, and 1.2 cents per minute for inbound calls. She gets so few/short calls that I'm not sure they've ever bothered to bill us for the minutes used :-)

Both of these services have worked well... not perfectly, but quite well. Probably better audio quality and reliability than most cellphone connections.

I've seen recommendations for CallCentric but haven't dealt with them myself.

As I understand it, land-line and cellphone and VoIP providers are all required by the FCC to allow you to port *out* most phone numbers to another carrier. They are not required to let you port *in* a number from another carrier. Some may refuse to do so entirely; others will accept port-in if your number is in a rate center they already service, but may not accept a port-in for a number located outside of their primary service areas.

Some VoIP providers accept only fixed termination points (i.e. you need to have a fixed, static IP address) to terminate your DID. Others use a standard SIP credential system, so your phone "registers" with their server when it comes on-line. It's usually possible to have two or more devices/endpoints register on a single account, although in some cases only one of them will "ring" on inbound calls. Depends on the provider.

I haven't seen any providers whose E911 provisioning will

*automatically* update when your endpoint moves around. Some (e.g. Vitelity) let you update the E911 info yourself through a user portal or control panel.

Some VoIP providers push (or insist upon) "package" plans... e.g. a single DID, with a fairly large bundle of inbound and outbound minutes. They sometimes include unlimited "free" minutes for calls made to other subscribers on their own network. These plans sometimes aren't a lot cheaper than a landline.

Most of them also support unbundled service offerings, where you pay separately for a DID, minutes in, minutes out, E911, and directory listing. These plans may be a much better deal if you have light usage on your line.

Hope this helps!

With the NSA keep tabs on all calls, (not listening of course) they already know where the SCAMmers(tm) are calling from.

If the NSA want to get everyone on their side, let the NSA send a few drones over those locations.

Maybe take out a few.

The message would be LOUD and clear.

h

SIP is "Session Initiation Protocol". It's the commonest way for setting up and managing a VoIP call.

SIP uses a generalized "localpart@domainname" addressing system. If you're using a VoIP provider to reach phones on the PSTN, you would typically being contacting your VoIP provider and sending something like " snipped-for-privacy@sip.myprovider.com" as the recipient ID. Your provider would route the call to a PSTN switching interchange "near" this 213-555-xxxx exchange, and then terminate the call onto the PSTN.

You can also use SIP to make calls which go nowhere near the PSTN. If, for example, you were to make a call addressed to " snipped-for-privacy@my.home.domain.com" (or whatever my Asterisk server's hostname is) the call would end up being routed to my Asterisk server over the Internet, and then to one of my SIP softphones (e.g. here at work), and would never go over the PSTN.

You can make such "direct" SIP calls without having a VoIP provider at all, in a strictly peer-to-peer fashion... you just need to know the right address. Such calls can be made "for free" (i.e. they're just data on your broadband connection).

Nope. It's entirely possible for you to *make* calls over SIP, which are then terminated to the PSTN, without having a DID (phone number) to which calls can be made.

The same is true in reverse. You can sign up for a DID, and for inbound-call service (i.e. PSTN -> DID -> SIP -> your device), without having the authority to make any *outbound* calls at all.

You'll pay monthly (usually) for having an inbound DID number, for E911 service, and for a directory listing. You may pay a flat fee per month, or per-minute, or both, for actual calls made and/or received.

This separation of "inbound call" and "outbound call" service is a bit different than landline-phone users are used to thinking of. It's a bit more complex but can have benefits.

Depending on rates and costs, you may want to have DID inbound service from one company, and outbound-call service from one or more other companies (better rates and coverage). One down-side to doing this, is that you usually won't be able to persuade your "outbound call" provider to place your "inbound DID" phone number in the outbound calls' CallerID headers. If I call somebody using my Future Nine account (outbound-only) the receipient sees a generic number located somewhere in the midwest, not any of my own numbers.

I terminate my wife's VoIP line to our Asterisk server, and I've written up some custom call-processing logic to help deter "sales slime" (her term).

Numbers which have been entered into a blacklist are dropped immediately... Asterisk never answers them, but rejects them with a "Congestion" condition. This results in a fast-busy at the far end, and makes the number look as if it is not in service.

Originating numbers on a whitelist ring her phone immediately.

Originating numbers in our local area codes ring her phone immediately.

All other numbers are answered, a voice message "Please wait to be connected" is played, they hear music-on-hold for 10-15 seconds, and (if they haven't given up) the phone rings.

For any call which actually rings her phone, the number is recorded. If we hear the call (they all go to her answering machine) and it's clearly a sales call, we can pick up the phone, dial 666, listen to the number, and then hit 6 to add it to the blacklist. Further calls from that number are dumped immediately, as above.

It's not a perfect system but has cut down the number of annoying calls on that line by about 95%.

Another of the key (critical?) differences between VoIP and conventional land line is the "availability" of the service. E.g., land lines are regulated, by statute. VoIP, AFAICT, are "regulated" by the market -- if enough people are disappointed with the price/performance, the provider goes out of business. (Ditto cell carriers)

I want to have a VERY high expectation of being able to contact 911, medical services, police, fire, etc. -- regardless of whether or not my internet connection *and* VoIP provider BOTH happen to be "up" at the time. E.g., I can recall exactly *once* (in my lifetime) when I picked up a phone and was unable to make a phone call -- and that was due to a lightning strike taking out one of the handsets on *my* end of the line!

OTOH, I've already experienced one extended "storm related" outage with my current ISP...

YMMV, of course

That is the problem with internet based anything. Few ISPs take service seriously. My CPA lost her internet recently for about a day and a half. She still has a POTS, but these tax people live off the IRS website, so that really messed her up.

You need a modem that doesn't need booting, a router that doesn't need booting, etc. If the power goes out, everything needs to start up after a power outage. Say what you want about the phone company of yesteryear, they do understand reliability.

I would tolerate devices that boot themselves, i.e. short outages. These peddlers need to just accept that all software is buggy and incorporate an analog watchdog scheme that will reboot the system independent of software.

In analog we trust! Actually you can do digital watchdogs too, but the watchdog has to be running code independent of the main cpu.

They *invested* in quality because it was *their* equipment (even the handsets in your residence). E.g., the B in BORSCHT really

*is* a "battery"! (or, it *was* the last time I was in a CO)

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The problem with software is people EXPECT "all software (to be) buggy". When was the last time you returned a software product (or software *based* product) due to buggy software? Chances are, you grumbled and "lived with it".

Or, worse yet, blindly embraced (software) "upgrades" that effectively

*add* new sets of bugs (they call them "new features") instead of just concentrating on fixing the existing "old" bugs.

E.g., I recently started "upgrading" my Windows (2KS) machines to XP (scheduled for EOL in a few months!) I.e., I don't need any of the "new features" (bugs) that a new VERSION of the OS brings with it. Rather, let them fix as many bugs as they plan on fixing; then, I will learn to live with those (for *another* 10 years -- just like W2KS)

This is much easier to do in the FOSS world -- with *certain* products. You can latch onto *a* release and just track changes to that release without jumping to the *next* release each time someone wants to stir the pot. (And, when support ends, you can support it yourself!)

Power supplies are crap. Yet, they are "analog" devices. And, most are actually *designed* with very little margin. "Designed to fail" (eventually). Someone made a cost/benefit tradeoff and decided to trim the margin/derating that they applied to the design.

The same thing happens in software -- except the tradeoff isn't as explicit. It boils down to trading "test/validation efforts" against the probability of customers stumbling on a particular "bug" and abandoning the product/product line/manufacturer.

You can come up with a reasonably thorough characterization for a resistor, capacitor, active, etc. Getting the same for a piece of software (esp COTS software) is much more "expensive". So, folks roll the dice and hope they can move on to another product before their sins catch up to them!

Until people start *expecting* and *demanding* more from the products for which they trade their dollars, those products have little incentive to improve!

Looking at it sideways, i use Comcast with voice; looks and acts like a Bell wired system - but reality is VOIP. About $65/mo with lowest tier internet and no nationwide (to keep costs down); supports E911, might be able to port a number.