the 100W bulb lives on....

So you're going to install pipes permanently and then buy a make-shift boiler to go with it. Why do you not surprise me with your "brilliance". Been studying DimBulb again?

I surely hope not! ;-)

Some of that but more that it's what the money I had set aside for the purpose bought.

A lot of that. I wish I could have bought the place with the 3200 sq. ft. unfinished basement. SWMBO didn't like the kitchen, though.

A *lot* of #2.

Spoken like a true totalitarian.

Yes. It's called "freedom" and "none of your damned business". Think about it.

Sure. All Obama-power is low-grade.

+1 on the thorium plants. We have enough plutonium for a couple of hundred years, too.

Go ahead, but I don't think much of your idea of "incandescent-like". I haven't found a CFL I'd have in my house.

Depends on what it's for.

>

I had a couple of halogen torchiers I bought within the last 10 years. I threw them out not because I didn't like them (loved 'em) but because they fell apart.

Floor lamps but not torchiers. They're tiffany style shaded. I had 1000W torchiers up until our big move.

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ...Jim Thompson

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I just made a case for a ban rather than a tax - filament bulbs are simply too cheap. Any reasonable tax impost wouldn't be high enough to change enough people's behaviour.

You haven't bothered to advance a counter-argument. Was my proposition so obviously correct that you chose to gnore it, in the hope that the majority of our readers (if there are more than two, which seems unlikely) wouldn't notice? Or did you just fail to notice it?

Nobody loves compulsion - even leftists - but sometimes it's the only tool that will work. =A0

If you aren't in charge, it's difficult to compel anybody to do anything. Try to engage your brain before you start typing.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

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As opposed to right-wingers, who think it perfectly okay to devalue scientific evidence if you don't like the consequences it predicts.

You need to read "Merchants of Doubt"

which lists a bunch of other right-wing physicists who felt it to be appropriate to devalue scientific evidence when it interfered with the god-given right of manufacturers to make money out of products which negatively affected human health in the long-term.

You aren't as emminent as Fred Seitz and Fred Singer, but you do seem to be just as wrong-headed.

Enjoy the lung cancer and the ever-enlarging ozone hole, which are a few of the benefits that your libertarian program would restore to the world. And don't forget to put the cocaine back into Coca-Cola while you are restoring the rights of manufacturers to maximise their income.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

My experience is that's closer to Americans even when they idealize to "Wild West" ideals, even to extent of negotiating ideals to agree to in order to have a high life expectancy in "Wild West". My experience is that even in childhood, Americans usually at-least-sometimes play with "toy guns," and they negotiate "fair play".

What's so totalitarian about that, unless "rednecks" dominate?

Bidding-up prices of necessities that I have to buy *is not* none of my damned business - since that affects *my* cost of living.

--
 - Don Klipstein (don@donklipstein.com)

So, you are moving the goalposts from LED to CFL ...

And what about the flashlights that you snipped?

Just in case need to repeat later, you are moving the goalposts from LED to CFL ...

As for ~3500 K, I like that in home lighting, from fluorescents/CFL until LED appears to me to get past CFL.

As for "romantic warm-color lighting", I do that primarily with CFL, secondarily with LED, tertiarily with incandescent.

Need I say again anything about flashlights?

--
 - Don Klipstein (don@donklipstein.com)

No, I'm saying that I don't trust your assessments of "incandescent-like". You have a very poor track record.

What about them? I haven't found an LED flashlight that's worth more than a $5 HF special, either.

Since I wrote nothing inbetween there, you can't read or can't think.

You like. Again, it depends on what it's for.

Fire.

Can I stop you?

Do you really get 70 lm/W LEDs for $1 ?

If you intend to build these into the same space as the 60 W bulb, you are going to have severe heat transfer problems. Quite possibly needing aluminum based PCBs etc. connected to heat sinks.

Without handling the heat issue properly, you end up with a LED lamp design that does not even last as long as the ordinary incandescent bulb :-).

Did that requirement also specify how many lumens had to be emitted ?

I have used a 2 W LED bulb in a street number cube that has now been constantly on for more than two years, surviving two cold winters and two hot summers. While the ground illumination is quite minuscule, it is enough to avoid any obstacles.

That's not the point at issue. The problem is that the wrong choice of light-bulb wastes energy, which translates - at present - into higher greenhouse-gas emissions and faster anthropogenic global warming. You may not believe in anthropogenic global warming, as you may not believe that the earth is round - rather than flat - but enough people can understand sciencific evidence well enough to support this kind of long term prudence.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

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In the long term, a lot fewer. In the short term it isn't a practicable propostion. One could - in theory - ban combustion engines overnight, but if this draconian proposition were adopted it would destroy society overnight, and with it, it's capacity to enforce any such ban.

Replacing incandescent filament lamps with compact fluorescent lamps is a less drastic and more practical intervention. We still need to replace fossil-carbon-fired power generators with renewable power sources, and build enough extra generating capacity to have enough left over to recharge the electric cars that we have yet to build in any significant number, but that isn't going to happen overnight - over a couple of decades might be more practical, and might - just - be fast enough to be more or less completed before global warming has advanced far enough to impair our capacity for large capital works.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

You may find this difficult to understand Rich, but I buy informative books and read them for pleasure. It's education, rather than re-education, and I do it on my own, rather than in a camp.

I don't agree with everything I read, but this does involve matters that are little beyond your grasp - or at least the grasp that you chose to exhibit here.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

t

Sorry but you do not get to select what is the point at issue. No one elected you as the oracle that decides what is being discussed. To me the point is you want to dictate to people what they do instead of educating them. One more time, you do not get to decide what is the issue.

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Nor do you.

d.

Obviously not. If there is an audience for this - rather pointless - debate, they will have to make up their own minds about your attempt to trivialise the issue by concentrating on the fact that consumers are wasting money by continuing to use incandescent filament bulbs, when the the waste of energy - currently produced by burning fossil carbon - was the issue that the legislators talked about.

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I didn't write the legislation - I do support it, but that doesn't mean that I don't want to see people educated as to why the legisation makes sense. I'd scarcely be defending it here if I didn't believe in educating people, though some are obviously less well-equipped to learn than others.

The people that did write the legislation do seem to have been more interested in saving energy than getting the consumer to save money. There's no doubt that educating people to do the right thing is a better approach when it works, but the whole system of criminal and civil law is a recognition that it doesn't work often enough to let us rely on education alone.

As if mindless repetition makes your depressing excuse for an argument any more convincing.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen