Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?

Short of rooting the phone, I just called LG technical support at 800-243-0000.

They said that after ICS (Android 4.0, ice cream sandwich), Google disabled the ability to move or load apps onto the SD card.

Is that correct information? If so, I should have known that.

I can't shift *any* of the pre-installed apps to the SD card! The settings apps button doesn't have a MOVE (or delete). How can you do that?

When I called LG, just now, at 800-243-0000, the representative (Leyda, in Mobile Communications Support) said that, after Ice Cream Sandwich, Google (not LG) disabled the ability to load apps onto the SD card, and also removed the ability to MOVE apps to the SD card.

So, if that's true, how did you move apps to the SD card? (I'm so confused.)

I do agree with you. I think my complaint won't carry much weight with either the FTC or the FCC unless (and this is the biggie), unless I'm not alone in considering this deceptive advertising.

For example, if hundreds or thousands of consumers complain with the same complaint of deceptive advertising, then the FTC and/or FCC, I think, would take it seriously.

If I'm the only one who is complaining of deceptive advertising, then, I'm simply the one fool in the crowd who fell for it.

It's no different than when people complain about an automotive defect or an advertising scam. If enough people complain about deceptive advertising, the FTC and/or FCC will listen.

One complaint is just one disgruntled consumer.

HINT: If you feel like complaining, you get 1,000 characters on the online FCC complaint form & 3,000 characters on the online FTC form: FCC 888-225-5322

(deceptive advertising) FTC 877-382-4357

I've always wanted to get Consumer Reports (aka Consumers Union) involved, especially when the *true* test of how much *usable* memory is far different than the carrier's *advertised* internal memory specifications.

But, I could never find the correct *person* to speak to. Everyone I spoke to had absolutely no clue what I was saying (technically).

Basically, all my prior inquiries in the past went into a black hole:

Consumers Union in NY 914-378-2000 (press 0 for the operator) In Texas 512-477-4431, in Washington 202-462-6262, SF 415-431-6747

The best I could do is write a measly review:

But, what we'd like to ask CR to do is run a *test* of the true available memory on the budget smartphones, which should be right down their alley.

For that, we'd need to get an *editor* interested in the concept.

Do you have any decent Consumers Union contact information for someone who would understand that, and, more importantly, *care* about writing such an article on budget smartphone usable memory?

I don't. (They never answer email to their general inbox.)

This is correct, but I would also like to clarify:

I had bought the phone *assuming* I could augment the puny 4GB internal ROM with a cheap $30 class-10 32GB external micro-SD card.

However, apparently Google has disabled the ability to MOVE applications to the external SD card and they have disabled the ability to DOWNLOAD applications TO the SD card, in Android versions after Ice Cream Sandwich (according to Leyda at LG Mobile Communications 800-243-0000).

LG tells me they don't install anything, so, it's T-Mobile who puts on the operating system and the pre-installed apps. The operating system plus the pre-installed (non-removable) apps takes up all but 600MB of the internal memory, out of the box.

Had I known this was, in effect, a 600MB phone, even with a 32GB external memory card, I would never have purchased the phone.

You can call me stupid, but, it wasn't obvious to me that the SD card slot was nearly useless, since you apparently can't install apps on the SD card.

With only 600MB available, in toto, for apps, the phone becomes almost wholly useless as a "smart" phone (IMHO).

To be clear, it's fine as a voice phone; but it's nearly useless as a smart phone, IMHO, because it only allows a paltry 600MB of apps.

My mistake was in believing that I could augment the admittedly puny

4GB of internal memory with the 32GB card. I believe the reviews and the carrier should have told me that the phone has only 600 MB of storage space for apps, since there is absolutely no way anyone could know this ahead of time.

That last point is critical.

There is no way you can know this information without both having the phone in your hands, and in adding your Google Play account so that you can try to download apps. Only *after* you've downloaded

600 MB of apps will you realize that the stated 1.8 GB of "usable memory" that the OS reports is a bold-faced lie.

Since it's impossible to know the true available memory (of 600 MB) without owning the phone yourself, I believe the carrier should have told me this information when I asked them about the "usable" memory.

While you can call me an idiot for thinking that the phone had anything more than 600 MB of "usable memory", does my argument at least make sense to you?

That is, would YOU have been similarly deceived or did you know, from the start, that the 4GB phone is really only a 600MB phone?

(i.e., am I the only idiot out there who was fooled?)

Can you expand a bit on why you feel that the phone is useless? Surely it works as advertised, able to do everything it's supposed to do. Is it the case that you have one or more apps in mind that you'd like to install, but you can't because there isn't enough space available? If that's the case, I don't think I would call it useless.

--
Paul Miner

Another example from that era: Commodore 64, 64KB of memory, but when you turn it on, it says "Commodore 64 Basic V2 38911 Basic Bytes Free". As above, you could get to some of the additional memory through paging, but I'm sure it was beyond most people at the time.

--
Paul Miner

Hi Paul, You are exactly right.

The phone is actually a fine phone, out of the box, for anyone who doesn't wish to install any more than a total of 600 MB of applications (and their data).

However, if the user wishes to install more than 600MB of applications (and their data, such as offline maps), then the phone will not allow that to happen.

So, it's useless (to me), from my standpoint, since I had *assumed* that I could augment the admittedly puny 4GB of internal storage with the 32 GB microSD card.

It turns out that this is, in effect, a 600MB (internal storage for apps) phone.

Had I known that, I never would have purchased the phone.

I keep beating my head against the wall, chastising myself for buying the thing. It's my fault. I do agree. I was stupid. I agree. I'm an idiot for buying this phone because I *thought* the sd card would hold apps (it did for my Gingerbread Android phone, for example).

My key question is HOW do you guys seem to inherently *know* that the sd card can't hold apps?

I always thought it did? How did *you* know that it didn't?

Note: The carrier never told me this until it was too late.

Hi Paul,

Along those lines, it's currently beyond my capabilities, but, I may have to root the 4GB phone (not that I really know what that entails) in order to free up some of the 3.4 GB that is currently being used by the T-Mobile Android 4.1.2, P76920h, LG Optimus L9 smartphone (model LG-P769).

Googling, I see that the rooting process is risky; but, if I faithfully follow it, do you have any idea of what I can reasonably expect by way of gains?

That is, can I only hope to free up 10 MB of memory? 20MB? 100MB? 1GB?

QUESTION: If I root the phone, what can I reasonably expect to free up?

And why no whining about RAM? My first smartphone had 4GB storage and

512MB RAM. The problem with it was the limited RAM, maiking you stop applications to run others.

You have to assess your needs, do your homework , and make the decision.

caveat emptor

We don't, but doing your research will find it.

600MB provides a reasonable amount of space for apps. Wanting to store content, like offline maps, will eat space faster. Google Play shows the size of apps so you can estimate what the app uses of storage. My apps use over 2GB but there are about 200 of them on my phone. The people ate T-Mobile are sales people, and T-Mobile is a marketing company not a technology company.

It's less deceptive advertising than the failure to do your research. You will get nowhere with regulators on this.

Education is expensive.

The same site has a forum for the L9. People there can tell you whatever you want to know.

Only a little and it's wearing thin.

I have nothing to complain about. I knew the "full" capacity of the internal storage wasn't available for my use, just as the "full" capacity of my computer's hard drives aren't available. I've known it for decades.

TJ

'Cuz I'm not the one whining in the first place :-) .

Amen! Cheers, -- tlvp

--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

In my case, it comes from knowing how Linux works. While not precisely Linux, Android is a very close relative.

In Linux, every app, file, etc. has permissions attached to it. The user (you) doesn't have permission to manipulate apps that are owned by root (T-Mobile, on your phone) unless root specifically gives that permission. In general, apps the user installs belong to the user, and apps installed by root belong to root. That's why you can't move apps to the external SD card - they don't belong to you. They belong to root. (T-Mobile)

Google has no say over who "root" is. If you "root" your phone, you aren't breaking away from Google, you're breaking away from T-Mobile. If I were to root my tablet, I'd be breaking away from Hannspree.

But rooting isn't for everybody. Being root gives you absolute power over your phone. That includes, along with the power to uninstall any app or move it wherever you care to, the power to wipe the OS right off with a very simple command line command. That's the reason for the permissions - so that users who don't know what they are doing can't accidentally mess up the whole system.

TJ

Thanks for that suggestion.

I've registered an account, and am voraciously reading up on how to root this thing without bricking it.

I also see that cyanogenmod might give me a smaller Android footprint, so, my overall goal might be three steps.

1. Root the phone
2. Replace the OS with a small cyanogenmod footprint
3. Add only the apps that I need or want

This might make the 600MB into a usable 2GB or so, if I'm lucky ...

I did see on the forum.xda-developers.com site you had kindly suggested that there are ways to format the SD card so that it acts as RAM, so, that's one possible way for me to add what they called "virtual memory".