Would you file an FTC or FCC complaint for Android T-Mobile ROM lies?

Long story short, I believe T-Mobile lied to the consumer by claiming the LG Optimus F3 and LG Optimus L9 have both 4GB of internal memory and that they can use up to a 32 GB external microsd card.

Without arguing why I feel that way, I just wish to ask here whether the complaint rightly goes to the FTC or to the FCC?

On the one hand, it's (grossly) false and misleading advertising. On the other hand, it's a communication device.

Whom would you file the complaint to? How?

Reply to
Danny D.
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It has nothing to do with the FCC.

The FCC deals with frequency allocation, and technical compliance. SO if the phone was putting out unwanted signals, the FCC would be the place to go.

But this is a consumer issue, there's no way it has anything to do with the FCC.

Michael

Reply to
Michael Black

Consumer complaints can start at the state AG's office.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

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Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
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Reply to
Phil Hobbs

Did somebody round down? Sheesh!.

Reply to
dave

I can't disagree with you, as that's why I had asked the question.

The confusing thing is that the FCC web page complaint form:

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Has a section for "Wireless Telephone" "Unlawful Advertising".

Since this advertising has all five elements of fraud, one would think that the FCC is involved.

Meanwhile, I am going to fill out the FTC complaint form:

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Reply to
Danny DiAmico

Specifically, the FCC has a section for: Deceptive or unlawful advertising or marketing by a communications company (does NOT include Telemarketing)

So, it seems the right place is the FCC and not the FTC (or so I think at the moment).

Reply to
Danny DiAmico

The difference between 4GB and almost zero GB of usable memory is more than a round off error ...

Reply to
Danny DiAmico

Thanks. I never complained to an AG before, but what I found on the FCC web site says I need to fill out the "Form 2000A - Deceptive or Unlawful Advertising and Promotion Complaint":

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Then I will call the FTC at 888-225-5322 to provide the necessary information. And I will fax the form to 866-418-0232, and send a paper copy to the address: Federal Communications Commission Consumer & Governmental Affairs Bureau Consumer Complaints 445 12th Street, SW Washington, D.C. 20554

Basically, if you go to the T-Mobile web site, they don't tell you the usable memory is nearly zero:

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And, if you call them, they will email you the same information (saying the usable memory is 4GB when, in fact, it's nearly zero GB).

Reply to
Danny DiAmico

I filed form 2000A to the FCC:

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Usually, just one FCC complaint won't do much. If lots of people complained, they'd do something. But, for just one complaint, I'm told they just send it to the manufacturer, who sends back a reply to the FCC, and who gives you a call. That's pretty much it.

Nothing happens unless other people are as upset as I that they lie about the available memory.

Reply to
Danny DiAmico

I'm not clear on what you're upset about. From your other thread, it seems to be centered around not being able to use the SD card for applications, so the obvious question becomes, did you assume that you'd be able to do those things, or did you see something in writing that led you to believe that you could?

Like I wrote in your other thread, I never expected or assumed that I'd be able to use external storage for applications, so my expectations weren't shattered. I'm able to do exactly what I expected I'd be able to do: use the external storage for content rather than apps.

--
Paul Miner
Reply to
Paul Miner

Well, they *do* have 4 GB of internal memory. And they use 'most all of it.

And they *can* use "up to a 32 GB external microsd card." Just not for anything your little heart desires -- rather, only for what the OEM allows.

No lies there -- just truth, but rather less than the *whole* truth :-) .

Cheers, -- tlvp

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Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.
Reply to
tlvp

Basically, I would never have bought the phone had I known there were only 600 MB of "usable" memory on it.

When I called T-Mobile, they insisted it had 4GB of internal storage, and that you could add a 32 GB card.

It turns out that it has about 600 MB of "usable" internal memory, and, the SD card slot is virtually worthless (for moving applications onto or installing onto).

Had T-Mobile not lied in my many (well documented) calls, I never would have bought the phone. So, all five elements of fraud are (arguably) evident:

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  1. a false representation of fact
  2. knowledge of the falsity by party making false representation
  3. intent to deceive the party by making false representation
  4. reasonable reliance by the innocent party
  5. actual loss suffered by the innocent party
Reply to
Danny D.

Actually, I have many documented phone calls to T-Mobile, with a witness (my wife) who was known to the T-Mobile as a witness when I had asked the question each time.

Many times they told me the "usable memory" was 4GB!

In each case, I have the first name and employee ID of the person who provided that errant information.

The errors are repeated, widespread, across Customer Service, Customer Service Supervisors, Technical Support, and Technical Support Supervisors.

Had I known the phones were unusable (they actually have less than 1 MB of usable memory out of the box), I never would have bought them.

Had T-Mobile told me the truth when I ordered the phones from them, I never would have bought them.

Reply to
Danny D.

I've never rooted a phone, but, I may be forced to do so, just to make the phone usable.

I do agree with you that *all* the preloaded apps won't allow you to move them.

I guess if you could move them, you could delete them.

Mewonders if Google makes certain apps non-removable (e.g., Chrome) because it's in there best interest. Yet, mewonders why T-Mobile makes certain apps (e.g., T-Mobile TV) non-removable, since there are plenty of their apps I'd never ever use but I can't get rid of.

Reply to
Danny D.

I think the "problem" is that the "little lie" becomes a "big lie" the closer your internal memory gets to 4GB.

For example, if they lie by 4GB in a 32GB phone, you still have a usable

28GB of "usable" memory.

Likewise, if they lie by 4GB in a 16GB or even 8GB phone, you still have a usable 12GB and 4GB respectively.

But, if they lie by 4GB in a 4GB phone, you end up with a useless phone.

Compound that lie with the lie of the promise of the SD card, and you are dead in the water with a phone you never would have bought, had the carrier provided the truth when you looked up the specs and asked on the phone about the "usable" memory.

Reply to
Danny D.

Oooops. "their" best interest!

Reply to
Danny D.

I'm no lawyer, but I've watched several lawyer shows on TV. ;^)

Judging by that, I'd say that if the company reps said "usable" memory, you haven't a leg to stand on. The memory on the phone is *usable." You use it every time you turn the phone on. It's usefulness may be limited, but that's different from "unusable." That's what the lawyers would argue, anyway.

Now, if they used the term "available," that might be a different story. Then again, it might not. As I said, I'm no lawyer.

Be aware that you aren't just taking on T-Mobile with this complaint. You are taking on the entire computer industry. And the computer industry has been doing this for a very long time. One of my first computers, back in the mid-80's, was an Atari 800XL. It was advertised as having 64K of RAM. It did, but only 48K was usable without special manipulation which most users didn't know how to do. After a while, I bought an aftermarket kit that boosted the RAM to 256K. I KNOW it had

256K, as I installed the chips myself. Even so, the new memory was only available in 16K blocks and one at a time, through the same manipulation used to access any more than the basic 48K.

Was it fraud to say I had a 256K computer when only 48K was easily available? I didn't think so, because the full 256K was *usable*. It just wasn't easy.

TJ

Reply to
TJ

If I were you and I still wanted to pursue the matter, I'd involve some consumer advocate groups like Consumer Reports. My guess is they already have several others who feel as betrayed as you do.

Maybe even contact a US Senator looking to get re-elected. Try one of mine, Chuck Schumer. He's always looking for causes to "investigate" to get his name in the paper.

TJ

Reply to
TJ

Wow. Really revealed my age on that one. I should have said, "in the news."

TJ

Reply to
TJ

What is the OP using to determine he can't use the memory outside the phone? I've never seen that (except Apple junk).

Reply to
dave

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