OT: Al Franken

Of course. That's the way it always happens.

Gosh, I'm not familiar with the concept "not working."

John

Steve wants a pay-check too, but he doesn't think he should have to work for it. The best thing about Steve *isn't* that he's a worthless piece-a-shit... it's that he knows it ;-)

...Jim Thompson

system. As is China.

I kinda thought they were because they said they were. The US said there were. I'm sure the encylopedia said they were. Probably just about everybody but Steve said they were. So OK I guess that makes it so.

national

buy

economy

and

any

I really don't have one handy. Can you provide a credible reference.

Well they may start out that way. But I've become conviced that they will soon evolve into something pretty bad and that has something to do with the nature of people. Witness China (Mao) and Russia (Stalin). The correction seemed to be not a restoratation of true Communisism but the importation of Capatialism.

Bill - who is wondering how he ever got in this discussion

power

I didn't say "all".

matter

should not

An entity...a group...whatever you want to call it. Changing that word doesn't make the difference between sense and no sense.

Yeah, like a congress, an executive, and a court. That's what I said.

play in

do with

The issue was Communism. It doesn't always have despots, but it always had dictatorship.

"Despotism is the only outcome of Communism", JL said. In that context he obviously wasn't using the word that literally.

If I was a rude asshole I might say something like, "Try to keep up".

And now you can have the last word because I'm not interested in your search for disputation.

Amazingly, we agree. But even a legislature with the power to change laws must obey a legal process when changing them. The people must also follow procedures in exercising their power, so in that sense the law is a higher power.

----------------------- Except only imaginarily so. The People decide that too! The People can do whatever the hell they wish!

-Steve

---------------- Gee, aintcha kind? You're so full of yourself it's pukey. You couldn't work even half again as hard as anyone else in your employ, it would kill you. And we can tell from your attitude that you actually don't even manage ANY more than the rest.

On the other hand, if you actually worked more hours and claimed the wage due those hours, all you're doing is stealing hours from other workers that should be divided more equitably!

-Steve

-------------- You've never read a single thing I've said then, lying asshole, I believe that people who don't work should be denied access to FOOD!

------------------ You're a decayed lying piece of shit, living on minor, antique and overblown accomplishment.

You need to be put out on an ice floe, Eskimo.

-Steve

Uh, Steve, just hang on to that resume for a while longer, OK?

John

---------------- Except that's NOT communism and has nothing whatsoever to DO with communism historically or otherwise. That's actually FEUDAL CAPITALISM at it's most vicious and venal, nothing more, it's the rich conniving to thieve once again.

----------------------- Me neither, but if you make more than another man for an hour of labor, or your non-labor, then you're a thief, and nothing else.

Pretending you deserve more if you do one job over another is merely a connivance to steal.

-Steve

Granted, but I'm stealing from myself, so it's OK.

John

------------------ Then you're merely stupid and would believe that a mugger was the tax man if he wore a suit and carried a brief case.

-------------------- You mean a certain Wisc Senator and his rich cronies said they were. See a pattern here??

--------------------- Who decides what goes in those? Guess. The guys who own the printing press, why else would the rich want to tell you anything??? To LIE!!

----------------------- Go read political science, any beginner's text will do, and then contrast and compare Soviet Russia and PRChina with its definition of communism, and you will note a vast disconnect that you have been brainwashed to ignore in your public mind.

----------- You're a big boy. The way you're beginning to sound like a whining propagandist, I begin to wonder who is paying you to type right now.

------------- That was just a lie contrived by the rich in the 1930's to terrify the American electorate and especially mass labor movements against socialism and communism, which they were beginning to embrace as a social movement. Dozens of propagandists among the rich were secretly enlisted to design lies to frighten and lies to fraudulently explain away the obvious beneficial nature of socialism/communism.

They used the same sort of game the rich Politburo thugs were playing on the Russian public claiming they were now living in "communism", however defective, and that they should now be happy they were all quite EQUALLY impoverished, not mentioning that this was so NOT because of "communism" but because THEY WERE STEALING IT!!

And THAT was EXACTLY the complement to the lie OUR rich perpetrated when they claimed that the evil was what communism somehow magically did to "men's souls" by making them "dependent" and that no such utopia is possible because we are all "so flawed", leaving out, of course, the fact that the same is even MORE true of capitalism, in which rich people are literally given a LICENSE to steal called MONEY, and the rich CONTINUE to get to STEAL from everyone!!!

This "fall from the garden" from Xtian sin-mythology was rehashed to control labor unions by trying to convince them that fighting among themselves for the dregs the rich permit them is the best they can do, which is what labor unions have done now for 70 years!!

When labor wins gains, the rich fire others to pay for them, and then the rich crank up prices and the gains go away! This is WHY we need the People to decide ALL issues of value, wage, price, and benefit in this society, because it is always stolen by thugs otherwise!!!!

------------------------------------ You act as if the Chinese don't have the world's oldest market system. Nope, after the earliest year or two of Mao the rich thugs simply re-stole it out from under the peasants. Peasants cannot implement a Communisn, it takes educated people, which makes it ONLY possible in an advanced nation.

-Steve

-Steve

--

-Steve Walz snipped-for-privacy@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!

Can you cite a recent example of a successful Communist state?

Not really. I make deals with people for our mutual benefit, on an entirely voluntary basis. A world that consists of purely voluntary agreements is my vision of Utopia.

Actually, what I'm full of at this instant is potato pancakes, pan-fried onion slices, barbequed chicken-apple sausages, and Corona beer. A little later on, I plan to be full of chocolate cake.

What are you full of?

John

But, your labor is so much less productive, and is a net liability if you are paid more than the historical minimum wage. Also, those (like you) who are paid more than the value of your work (on a resale/overhead basis), or are paid from the government dole -- from taxation, are the true thieves and parasites.

John

--------------------- NEVER did, because there wasn't any such "communism". There were just lying dictators. And there are lots of previous communisms, humans lived in them for 100,000 years.

-------------------------------- He was just regurgitating the crap he was brainwashed with. It isn't true. We lived in communism for 98% of human tenure on this planet.

-Steve

---------------------- Yours? Round-filed it.

-Steve

------------------------ Sort of like when you threaten their livelihood and they decide "voluntarily" to not get wages you don't want to give them.

There is no voluntary agreement where people are not equal.

-Steve

Walz is probably thinking about the mature Communist system "paradises" like NKorea or Cuba. Those are obviously the epitome of the standard of living that he aspires to. (The ONLY thing that maintains those states is a force of personality, which is certainly inadequate and such dictatorships are the logical result of the Communist system that definitely disregards reality.)

Trying to impose that set of theoretical ideas (Communism) conflicts with reality, and will eventually degrade into one of several kinds of messes. People like Walz keep on trying and trying -- while ignoring reality, and their 'theory' will continue to effectively politically support despots. As they try to apply their 'theory', the people will continue to die, without hope (until Communism and most of its anti-human-nature goals are expunged.)

John