Nuclear device for the kitchen, yes really

You assume, without adequate training and knowledge in scientific, technical and political science, that the political leaders are incompetent, corrupt and ill-minded, the scientists are irresponsible idiots, and that we are already exploiting "Earth's resources in a way which jeopardizes future generations of people".

The fear you express comes from the cultural pattern you live in, and has nothing to do with technological dangers caused by "irresponsible" people.

Yes, that makes you a loonie greenie. Loads of idealism and energy, lack of real scientific education, an irrational fear and often also belief in a Grand Conspiracy. The whole performance is played out with typical middleclass lifestyle and values as background and reference frame. Nice people, but politically they are best described as seekers.

There was once a real environmental movement which made mankind aware of the problems for ourself and other organism through irresponsible treatment of the nature we live in. It started already in ancient times but became more expressed in words by writers like Henrik Ibsen who wrote a theater play about an environmental problem in Estonia, 150 years ago.

It ended in 1960 when a book written by Rachel Carson came out, Silent Spring, and media made environmental issues into a new ideology. In

1960, as that book was on the desks of bookstores you could go swimming in the waters in and around Stockholm. The water had become fairly clean again, after 500 years of industrial activity which was done with less regard for the nature. In the year 1900 you would have become very ill if you drank the water directly from the lake. In Stockholm you see people with fishing rods standing at bridge in the middle of the city, and they have been fishing there since the 60ies, when the fish in those lakes were declared suitable for eating again.

The politicians had worked with environmental problems for more than a hundred years. They managed to remove so many sources of environmental hazards that we now can swim in this water, and eat the fish which lives in it, a water which only a hundred years ago was a stinking sewer system.

Was that point in time the best for setting up a green party? Well, maybe if you want to get a lot of votes, and an environmental party cannot cause much problems anymore, after we have cleaned our environmental closets for hundreds of years, so a new party based on environmental ideas can be tolerated by the other political parties.

The leaders of mankind have had knowledge about the environmental problems for a long time. But environmental aspects sometimes have to stand back for more important problems.

The greens are not aware of any problems for mankind which are more important than the survival of every type of flower and moss that exists in the world.

They complain a lot about environmental problems caused by mankind during the last 40 years, but are not aware of what has been achieved by mankind already before that period.

They think we are going to live on this earth forever, and that the earth will remain as it is now forever, unless we destroy it ourselves.

They don't realize that we have come to life by a lucky fluke in a momentary situation in a very hostile space, where whole worlds are created and destroyed all the time.

We are sitting ducks for any rock or snowball that happens to come our way, and we have all our eggs in one single basket. We need to develop space technology and spread out into the universe, to secure the survival of mankind.

We will probably see the start of the building of gigantic spaceships within a few hundred years from now. Ships which can take millions of people, and the ship will be a good world to live in even if we never find planets out there which we can live on.

The western world still sees itself as the only rich place on earth. Most of us do not understand that the world has changed a lot in the last 40 years. Media channels have not informed us about this, because there are always reasons to portray other countries in a negative light, so we only get to hear the bad news.

We can put every citizen of the world in a diagram over the number of children in the family on one axis, and the yearly income on the other axis. 40 years ago the diagram showed a few western countries in the end of the diagram where there are few children in the family and where the income is low.

The third world countries were in the opposite corner.

This is the situation we describe in school books, movies and in other media, so that is the current situation in most people's minds.

But the same diagram for the situation today looks very different from the situation 40 years ago. Today most of the former third world has joined the western world in the corner with high incomes and few children. I am talking about around 4 billion people who have come from a hut and a water buffalo to a 2 room apartment and cable TV.

Only a few small groups of people are still left in the opposite corner, and they are basically the african countries. The population of Africa is a very small part of the world's population and it is a shame for all mankind that we do not help these few people to a decent life like the rest of us are allowed. We can afford it without taking much from our own welfare.

We would actually gain from helping them, because it would remove a lot of fuel for violence and hatred in the world.

Considering that the people in Africa are suffering because the western world has robbed Africa of natural resources, and even humans, for profit and for our own comfort, the least we can do now is to let the people of Africa live at the same material standard as the rest of us. With the same standard of health care, education, human rights and citizens rights in a democracy.

--
 Roger J.

It's not illegal in the UK (see my other posting, although it only went to uk.d-i-y).

They were packed with a piece of bubble wrap, filled with slow release sulphur dioxide most likely.

I don't know about strawberries in particular, but irradiation actually doesn't work on some soft fruits -- a few days later they are a pile of mush. Cucumbers are an example.

--
Andrew Gabriel

countries,

well this would be the warning sign to many people, if the food becomes resistant to bacterial growth then the nutrients must have been modified in some way so they are either less able to support life or are even toxic. either way theres less of an inclination to want to eat it. just the same as some awfull foods wich are swapmed with preservatives.

that would be nice, but looks always seem to be the priority over taste these days as its more evident at the point of sale, we seem to end up with more and more imaculatly looking carots apples etc. but with less and less taste.

on

ive seen various such debates before but no one ever seems to actually be able to cite any such published results. well not that are actualy aplicable to crux of the matter.

Colin =^.^=

Taken from: Nature's Field, Vol.17 No.3, May/Jun 2001

Irradiation

As this issue was getting ready for publication, President Bush has introduced a bill in Congress that would require all meat served in school lunch programs to be irradiated, supposedly to protect our children. Other people are suggesting we should pass legislation that would require foods (including herbs) that were imported into this country to be irradiated. Ouch. We need to keep our eyes open and be ready to oppose any such legislation or we will lose many of our healthy herbs from other parts of the world. We all need to be alert and oppose these measures. Write your congressmen!

Microwave Ovens

But it doesn't stop there. Seeds sprouted with non-microwaved water had quicker and more vibrant growth of those little wee hairy taproots growing off the main sprout root than those done with microwaved water. We also noted that it took one to two days longer for the seeds to completely sprout with microwaved water and that mold spores took hold quicker than on the seeds sprouted with non-microwaved water. Oh yes, another observation as well. We did notice that the non-microwaved water sprouting resulted in sprouts that stayed fresher a couple of days longer than those done with microwaved water.

John

[..]

About 10 years ago, prior to their stock market flotation,

were being hailed by market brokers as the next license to print money. Isotron's food irradiation technology was going to be the enabling means for the big food providers to massively reduce wastage and increase their profits. Fortunately, just before flotation, the U.K. government took onboard the advice of it's scientists and made food irradiation illegal. Isotron had to quickly scramble into other areas. Hasn't though stopped a number of scumbag operators who irradiate food declared 'unfit for human consumption' and feed it back into our food chain. Irradiation is particularly effective when used on rotting seafoods, (eg Prawns). The usual process is to ship the stuff out to Holland (irradiation is legal) irradiate it and then bring it back into UK. Every couple of months a case come before the courts.

If irradiating is illegal, I still can't figure out (as an experiment) why a punnet of Tesco's or Morrisons' 'fresh Strwaberries' can spend 3 weeks outside in the garden and yet not rot. regards john

No. At least you _could_, but not so it's edible afterwards. You need gamma.

You're unlikely to get gamma sources that are usable in kitchens. For one thing, a suitable gamma source and castle has a minimum weight of a couple of tons - bit hard on the worktops!

There's also the issue of nutritional quality, and the legality of doing this in the UK.

Well his .sig is twice as long as is generally accepted, looks rubbish with a proportional font, but the separator seems OK.

--
 Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet.

Great when dummies sterilize themselves. The problems associated with radiation is the radicals, meaning tangling electrons from electron pair bonds. They are highly reactive and are said to cause cancer.

I don't need them in food. As simple as that.

Rene

--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net

Just to speculate on this in the other direction... (As in "you are what you eat")

Like they said in England - Mad cow desease can't jump the species barrier - it did.

Those gamma rays etc modify the DNA in uncooked potatoes so that they don't sprout. The modified DNA gets taken up when it's consumed and gives evolution a boost...

Farfetched ? maybe.

Thanks to the soothing talk of the Ministry of Agriculture Fisheries and Food (MAFF) - actually a body representing the farmers/industry - but not the interests of the consumers, you (The US that is) are sending specimins to the UK to determine if your cows have Mad Cow disease aka BSE (Bovine Spongiform encephalopathy) - as we have become the experts.

Hmm i thought there was a difference between X-rays and Micro-Waves (R.F.) ? irradiation units give off X-rays which is a byproduct. the massive electronics when expose to air generate OZ,(Ozone). when Ozone hits a little moisture, it creates a little toxic acid that is very irritating to the skin. now, think about the moisture that is in the food, you hit it with irradiation, it generates Ozone. and it goes on. am i missing something here? let me see, i think the toxin is nitrous oxide?. i could be wrong there.

does that mean we must change our sex toys? :)

30 years ago it used to be gamma radiation - harder than X-rays. My daughter, who had a serious blood disorder and had lost all her immunity to bacteria, was fed on it for a few months. It was mainly used for items like jam etc. which were normally served cold. Other food such as meat stews and potatoes were considered sufficiently sterile by being boiled, recently. Despite these precautions she still suffered from massive fungal infections in her mouth and throat.

--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

You should go to a restaurant in France - to them it is a sacriledge to more than just brown the outside. You yanks are so lily livered and politically correct (Except JT of course).

Why the hell should a science magazine have politics?

John

Some other mathods of preserving food also are known to change the flavor. Pickling, smoking, canning, jerking, curing, and grinding up and mixing with nitrites come to mind.

John

Exactly.

John

And your point is...?

John

All plants have bacterial defenses; caffeine is one. Some can be toxic to people, for example some disease-resistant potatoes (bred, not GM'd) that had to be pulled off the market. Nature is full of nasty chemicals already.

John

Wouldn't it be so much simpler to put the food in air-tight bags, then micro-wave them? Micro-waves will heat the food to the point of killing the germans (sorry, germs), then the air-tight bag will stop anything else getting in to the food. Sterile enough or what?