The long-term cost of the batteries, and disposal problems, would be the same, but with some advantageous economy of scale.
You might have the option to install a worn-out battery if you know that you won't drive far. Pay by the watt-hour. When I get gasoline, I just fill it up.
What are people doing about selling or refurbing a Tesla when the batteries are worn out?
According to people who fix them, most 15 year old Teslas have only needed individual cells or cell banks replaced so far.
Are you going to provide more information so the misinformation you posted can be explained?
I always thought they bought them to make up for one or more deficits that nature gave them. Then there is always the 'Look at me, arn't I macho' factor.
*** The fact that Chevy developed and sold the chevette for years suggests to me that they might.
So just to clarify, are you implying that a '20 min charge break' would provide some significant level of charging? What was the charge level when you stopped? and then when you left?
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I wonder how they find the bad cells out of 7000.
They just swap out the module with bad cell.
On Wednesday, 12 May 2021 at 13:08:29 UTC-7, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote: ...
On one trip I did down to Santa Barbara from the Bay area in my Model 3 I drove about 170 miles to Atascadero where the battery was at 37% with a remaining range of 113 miles.
We then had a meal while it charged.
Within 20 minutes it had charged to 73% and an indicated range of 223 miles. So it had gained 110 miles in 20 minutes.
We actually hadn't finished our meal so I left it charging for another 17 minutes to 93% with 283 miles range. That is another 60 miles.
The rate of charging slows as the battery charges. It was doing 500 miles/hr initially but slowed to 130 miles/hr at the end.
kw
On Wednesday, 12 May 2021 at 14:04:35 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: ...
For the Model S the batteries are divided into 16 modules each of which is divided into 6 series groups of 74 cells in parallel.
The Battery Monitor System measures the voltages on each group of 74 cells. They would usually be replaced as a group although with a bit of effort the individual bad cell could be determined.
Later Tesla cars tend to have fewer but larger cells.
Cell size progression 18650 -> 2170 -> 4680
Other manufacturers have always gone with much larger prismatic cells with perhaps only a few of hundred cells altogether.
kw
...
With a Tesla or the modern cars from other manufacturers charging stops are usually measured in minutes, not hours.
On a 200-250 mile trip, it could be done without charging on the long range Tesla cars.
Using the ones with slightly shorter range it could be done with maybe twenty minutes of charging.
Instead of spending a weekend there I would
... It's not much of a problem these days with the modern EVs.
kw
On Tuesday, 11 May 2021 at 22:37:58 UTC-7, Tom Del Rosso wrote: ...
With modern EVs the batteries are not expected to be replaced in most instances until other parts of the car have deteriorated, say 10-20 years.
I expect to change my EV this year, the range has degraded from 309 miles to 300 miles in ~3 years.
Often they have 8 year 100,000-150,000 mile warranties on the batteries for EVs
I would say that they are not yet quite as durable as engines in conventional cars but they are getting close to the point of it being equivalent to asking "when will I need a new engine in my car" and a somewhat similar cost.
Tesla tried it but there was no demand. There are one or two companies in China that are being successful with that business model.
Renault sells one of their EVs in Europe where the battery is leased separately from the purchase of the car.
kw ...
My car is a 3 year old model X, the biggest electron burner in the Tesla line up until they bring out the truck. Plugging in at 15% I can put on 140 miles of range in 20 minutes. A model 3 or Y can charge faster and gets more range, closer to 225 miles. I spoke with a model Y owner the other day while charging on a V3 charger (250 kW vs. 150) who said he observed short term charging rates of over 1000 MPH. So you can see the improvements they have accomplished in just a couple of years.
If you are on a long trip the car will schedule your stops and charging times to keep the charging rate on the fastest portion of the charging curve and minimize your total charging time. Stopping briefly every couple of hours makes the trip so much less of a grind.
As I said previously, the people who complain about charging Teslas are people who don't have EVs, not people who are driving EVs.
Early on after I bought my car I saw a graph of non charger limited charging rates showing a peak around 15 or 20% and sloping down in both directions approaching zero at each end. I just saw a charging curve for the 3/Y where the guy compared his new car to a 2 year old car. Seems the curve is a bit like yours where the charging rate ramps up to a very high value at very low state of charge numbers, holding constant for a bit, then coming rapidly to approx 150 kW from where it tapers as usual. The funny part is the 2 year old Model 3 stayed at the 250 kW level for longer than the new car.
This graph is vs. state of charge while your charge data is vs. time.
Charging problem solved (maybe, one day, sort-of, hopefully):
Not exactly new. Some bus lines that use electric buses have buried inductive links under points at either end of the bus route that can recharge the bus in ten minutes.
Laithwaite's linear induction motors - or at least some of them - were supposed to do that back in the late 1960's.
Various companies seem to be making significant headway in wireless charging, but while stationary. It would seem trying to charge while driving has many, many issues that address a problem that largely does not exist. As Bill is happy to point out, cars tend to remain stationary 95% of the time on the average, so it makes no sense to try to charge them while moving. As has been pointed out, the charging rates are improving enough that charging does not have significant impact on trip time.
It will be very hard to justify miles and miles of charging lanes on highways or even just adding the charging equipment to any lane. The idea of a charging lane is pretty poorly thought out actually and in many locations is a non-starter. Heck, in the Washington DC area they don't add lanes to highways without making them toll lanes anyway. For the money they charge they should provide the charging for no extra cost!
I have a gage that goes from E to F.
Unless it's cold and snowing and there is a spinout on the way up. You could have an extra hour of stop-and-go, with the cabin heater and the battery heater eating up your charge.
FREE FREE FREE seems to be the theme here. I guess your time is FREE FREE FREE too.
You know Ed Lee has very odd priorities, being willing to stop to charge every 50 miles since that's as far as his car will go between charges.
The trips you talk about making can be done without charging along the way. You can either charge at the Safeway or you can grab a quick bite at the Fiftyfifty Brewing Co with a quick bite. You won't have time to do much more since the car will hit 80 or 90% charge in a half hour. Or you can plug it in overnight at your cabin assuming the owners are thoughtful enough to provide a 240V outlet. Even a 120V outlet will bring the car up to charge in a couple of nights.
Again, this is why I say the only people who complain about charging an EV are not EV owners. Mostly the perpetual whiners.
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