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Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:40:33 +0100, Peter Percival wrote:

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the
that

ICT: Information and Communications Technology.

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Schools can't change much and with league tables to do anything that
might not produce the correct results for the league tables is
frowned on. I believe HMG is in the process of bringing back more
hardware and computing fundementals into the ICT silly bus.

--  
Cheers
Dave.




Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
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A term which itself should be scrapped, since it is used nowhere outside
of schools.


--  
Today is Setting Orange, the 24th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3179
        RIP Iain M Banks, 16 February 1954 ? 9 June 2013

Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
Dave Liquorice wrote:

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Thank you.  I neglected to point out that "whatever" is to be pronounced  
"wo'evva".  Something like that.

--  
I think I am an Elephant,
Behind another Elephant
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Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?

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at  
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to  
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Narrow minded nation notion - "all schools have computers for their  
pupils" in Africa and India?
How about low power requirements and the ability to run a whole  
classroom on solar power for example.
There are narrow margins of the earth where survival is by narrow margin  
- where the technological bootstrap of the information age can be wedged  
into the youth of impoverished society with the rPi.

And here's a bit from a previous UPS thread:
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the day the tiny fluorescent tube or line of white LEDs at the bottom  
can't be augmented or illuminated by a solar lightpipe fiber?

I've got a 110V power mains UPS designed to charge what is essentially a  
12V motorcycle battery, and recreates a pseudo-sine AC 120V with an  
inverter that draws off of the battery as it charges.
I hacked it to also charge with solar panels and draw the 12V off an  
automotive battery directly to operate a 12V display HDTV LCD with  
tuner, DVD and several inputs - TV, NTSC Video, Component RGB (RCAx3),  
2xHDMI and a PC xVGA 1080p. Starting with a full charge, and a two  
square foot solar panel, I can run just over 5 days and nights  
continuously in hazy overcast, and indefinitely with two bright sunny  
days (or more) a week. I haven't plugged it into the mains to charge it  
since the start of the hack, and it's reassuring I can tap a few minutes  
of 110V in an emergency with the inverter sockets.
I can tinker with rPi (or watch TV,) charge my mobile phone and power  
the Ethernet/wifi network all while entirely off the power grid. Nobody  
is burning coal in my proxy to allow me to create digitally. And the  
setup could work just as easily in Peru and Bolivia as here in the  
suburbs of California.

--  
  All ladders in the Temple of the Forbidden Eye have thirteen steps.
There are thirteen steps to the gallows, firing squad or any execution.
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Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
DisneyWizard the Fantasmic! wrote:
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Good point.  If I wished to continue pursuing (something like) my  
original point I would change it to: 'Why is the Raspberry Pi needed in  
UK schools?  But as indicated elsewhere in the thread, I am now  
beginning to see its value.

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--  
I think I am an Elephant,
Behind another Elephant
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Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 15:01:48 +0100, Peter Percival

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FWIW I was talking to some guys who are going to row across the
Atlantic for charity.  They're using a RPi for a steering control.
--  
(\__/)  M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
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Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
On 19/06/13 11:48, Mark wrote:
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Back on-topic. Thank goodness! Impressive, too!


Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
On 6/18/2013 9:01 AM, Peter Percival wrote:

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The intended goal of RPi project was TV set top box. Very commercial and  
very competitive market. However RPi was unlucky in this application. So  
they had to come up with some other use to recoup costs.


Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Designs
www.abvolt.com


Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
On 20/06/13 15:19, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
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Well they did a good job anyway then.

actually equipped with a USB tuner, it probably would make a decent STB .,..
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--  
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc?-ra-cy) ? a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.


Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
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10/10 for the most entertaining answer so far!

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--  
I think I am an Elephant,
Behind another Elephant
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Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:01:48 AM UTC-4, Peter Percival wrote:
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You're reading too much into that.  This was already discussed, in the earl
y days of this newsgroup.

Learning isn't just in school.  There have always been kids who learn thing
s by themselves, out of curiosity or because they are experience based lear
ners.  They'd be the ones pursuing hobby electronics or amateur radio or am
ateur astronomy (including building their own telescope) or whatever.

I didn't get a computer until late, 1979. A KIM-1, it had all of 1K of RAM,
 a calculator style keyboard and readout, and could only save things via a  
cassette recorder, if I hooked one up.  One couldn't do much anything pract
ical with it, so it was a toy, a place to play/learn about computers.  It h
ad a great monitor in ROM, so I could single step instructions, see the reg
isters after each step. I could just enter one op-code and see what happene
d, since the monitor would take care of the rest, or run a few bits of code
, getting it right and then putting it together with other things. I didn't
 read books in anticipation of playing with the computer, I'd use them in t
andem, or even try things or think of something, then run to the book.

It was the same way I'd learned electronics starting in 1971 at 11 when I s
tarted buying the hobby electronic magazines.  None of it made any sense, i
t was a steep cliff up, but I kept at it and picked up through osmosis, som
ething that interested me so I kept learning, consuming anything I could ge
t my hands on.  I got my ham license at 12, not even studying much for the  
test, I was likely the youngest ham in Canada that June, because the rules  
had just changed in April so I didn't have to wait till I was 15.

This is how little children learn.  They can't read, they can't even unders
tand words, but they experience the world and learn from it.  This is map-m
aking, this is hacking.

Seymour Papert understood this, he'd watched small children, and the hacker
s at MIT, and came up with Logo.  It's not a "simple programming language",
 it's an "environment for playing/learning".  "What happens if I do this...
" and you can try it and learn.  Sadly, once out of the lab, it became a "s
imple programming language" and the teacher stood at the front of the class
 and instructed the kids in the language.

Lots of people do well because of that kind of learning, if nothing else it
's the basis of more formal learning.  It's an enthusiasm that often isn't  
there in school, because people decide to play with computers on their own,
 but in school the curriculum is decided by the teacher or school.

If nothing else, I learned about learning by playing with electronics and c
omputers when I was younger.

The Pi is like that.  Something so cheap that it's not an impediment.  Scro
unge  a keyboard and hook it up t the family tv set,  just like in the days
 of the Commodore 64 or Vic-20.  Yes, in this day and age most homes have a
 computer, but they are being used for "serious things", doing the wrong th
ing can damage it.  When a friend got a used Mac Plus in 1994, her daughter
 well summed it up by saying "I want to try things, but I'm afraid".  She k
new that trying things was learning, she knew that if she made a mistake sh
e might erase something important, and then her mother would be upset with  
her.  She didn't want that, so she didn't try things.

Making mistakes is learning, trying things is learning, but if you're too a
fraid, that doesn't happen.  You stick to the path, you stick to the map. I
f you have a computer that isn't being used for important things, you can d
o whatever you wish. It gets better, since unless you are storing things on
 the Pi, any accidental erasing of the operating system just means restorin
g it. It's close to the days of the Commodore 64 when the "operating system
", actually BASIC in ROM, couldn't be erased because it was in ROM,  If som
ething locks up, turn off the computer, and turn it back on.

30 years ago, you could either get something really low end like the SIncla
ir ZX-81, or spend hundreds of dollars for the TI-99 or the C64.  YOu can g
et the Pi today for a lot less, and it's a way better computer.  I remember
 trying to learn C in 1988, on a 2MHz computer with 64K of RAM and 2 floppy
 drives.  Just "hello world" took a long time to compile, and if there were
 errors they scrolled by so fast, and it was complicated to edit.  I was us
ing a 1GHz computer with 512K of RAM until October, and compiling small C p
rograms on that was instant.  It was like running an interpreted program on
 a ROM based computer in the old days, you'd be back at the command line ri
ght away.  So the Pi may not be like "new computers" but it's a really dece
nt system, far better than home computers in  the old days.  It bes to be p
layed with, which is where the intent is.  Let kids play at programming, tr
ying things and learning.

You don't need schools when you can get the Pi so cheap.  That's the bane o
f the self learner, resources often aren't there because the money isn't th
ere.  Do I spend money on books, or on hardware to actually try things?  Th
e Pi beats that.

   Michael
  
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Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 12:55:32 -0700, et472 wrote:

....snipped oots of good stuff for brevity...

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Well said.

And, if the 'big computer' in your house can run CVS or an equivalent  
version control system, its easy to install that on the RPi (CVS is part  
of the Rasbian distro) and proof the stuff you've created against loss if  
the SD card breaks or you have to re-flash it.


--  
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
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Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
snipped-for-privacy@ncf.ca wrote:
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You've convinced me.  Thank you.

Look, I'm thick.  Where computers are concerned I'm as thick as it's  
possible to be, so if I got a Raspberry Pi, would I be able to  
understand it?  Is the documentation good?

--  
I think I am an Elephant,
Behind another Elephant
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Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
On 21/06/13 07:44, Peter Percival wrote:
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Its Linux/Unix so suffers from, the usual 'documentation is good, meta  
data is appalling' syndrome.

The sorts of conversations that used to go across the lab  of 'I need to  
do X? Anyone? 'Type 'man Y'' where Y is some arbirtrary command you had  
never heard of, hasnt changed much. B=Nor on typing 'man Y' was it easy  
to find the one command line switch you needed that did what you wanted.


Except you shout across the internet these days, and google is a sort of  
metadata thing.


--  
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc?-ra-cy) ? a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.


Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
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The "apropos" command is supposed to cover that

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Remember that this is not specific for Linux, it is specific for doing
tasks that are a little more complicated than bare minimum every day
activity.

In Windows it is no different.  Everybody knows how to open a file in
the explorer clickety-click or how to select files and move them
somewhere else (always nice to predict if it will move or copy),
but ask a Windows user to move all files from one folder and all
subfolders that are owned by one specific user to another folder and
you have him baffled and searching the help.  It will be interesting to
see if they find a solution.

Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?

<snip>

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I don't know the answer, but I'd start with xcopy.

--  
Alan Adams, from Northamptonshire
snipped-for-privacy@adamshome.org.uk
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Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
wrote:

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Why not log on as administrator and drag and drop? Thats what windows
was designed for.  

Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
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How are you going to select files by owner without selecting them
one by one and right-clicking, clicking through several screens to
find the owner of each file?

Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?

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Windows files are in that owners folder. If they are not in a
designated folder they are in an all users folder or group users
folder.  

Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
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Ok say they are in an all users folder, or a shared folder on a server.
How are you going to select files by owner?

It is not so simple.  And it shows that even in a GUI not everything
is straightforward.

In Linux you could do:

find / -type f -user (username) -print

and when it looks OK then:

find /directory -type f -user (username) -exec mv {} /archive \;

but that is the kind of thing you need to look up in manpages when
you are not familiar with the system.  So go find it on Windows, in
helpfiles or somesuch.

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