Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?

You're pretty close but I don't think anyone managed to remove every bit and piece of IE and if it there wasn't already some theory of what is not a 'part of the O.S.' then attempting to remove it would be moot. I mean, if it *is* a 'part' then what's the point?

The problem with these kinds of things, though, is they're nebulous, subject to opinion and interpretation, and you can 'prove' just about anything, to your own satisfaction at least, depending on your underlying assumptions and how you want it to come out.

Take the example of removing I.E.. If you want to conclude it isn't 'necessary' to the O.S. then you simply argue they intentionally made it break the O.S. when removed so failing to remove it proves nothing. They 'could' do it 'right' if forced to, or so you'd argue (and believe).

On the other hand, would you buy an O.S. with no browser? Would most people? And, if not, doesn't that make it a rather 'necessary part' of the product whether one can remove it or not? And if you were making an O.S. would you depend on someone else to provide your critical update mechanism, hoping they make mods as you need them, on time, bug free, rather than whatever they might determine is 'more important' to their own product schedule? Or would you feel that important enough a feature to be 'a necessary part' of your O.S., written and maintained by your own people?

But then, back to the other side, if you believe it isn't necessary you just pooh pooh the notion and argue anyone's browser would work just fine if they didn't 'intentionally' make their dumb update mechanism odd ball (and you'd believe it).

And we could go on and on, back and forth, in the same manner because there's always "a way to do it," depending on your opinion of what an O.S. product "should be" and what's "just as good" or "acceptable."

But then browsers don't all work 'exactly' the same, do they? and when the user has a problem with your "Internet Ready" O.S., and automatic updates, who do they call for support? Who do they blame? What's broke? Who fixes it?

You're quite right that it's more complicated.

Overly simplistic bullshit. It's all of the sources worldwide that supplies the planet and there is plenty at the moment. It will eventually run out, so I guess the oil guys figure they'll get their money now, while the gettin' is good..

Again, overly simplistic bullshit.

Again, over simplistic. It's not that building a pipeline is not permitted, it that it's not permitted to build it the *way* you guys want to do it. We *do* have environmental protection rules up this way, and where we have them, we apply them. Your shipping argument is totally off the wall and incorrect as well. Never saw weather yet that could keep an oil tanker from it's appointed rounds. Not even in the North Atlantic.

As with everything else, I suppose when you you find yourselves behind the eight ball with energy costs and availability, you'll just walk in and take it like you feel it's your right. What is it you folks call it down there? Oh yes, "American interests".

We have plenty of refining capacity to look after our own needs up this way. Other countries are responsible for their own refining capacity construction programs. Unless the oil companies there, wish to keep the cost of fuel artificially high. And, what it's priced at on the good old New York Stock Exchange is what you guys, and the rest of the friggin' world, pay for it.

Holy freaking crap that was undoubtedly one of the most ridiculous things ever typed! Which in my mind ends this convo, your not playing with a full deck, a sandwich shy of a picnic, your elevator never sees the top floor, and your a brick shy of a complete wall.

AND ABOVE ALL JD-Gary H - Mikey, you guys wouldn't know what to do if you were suddenly dropped into BG's shoes. Other than put the company in ruin. BUT if you struggled to make your company what it was, just to have whiners try and take it from you, I am SURE you would sing a whole nother tune.

Whiners = those who wanted in, but didn't want the risk, and now think because they 'thought' about getting in, they should have a piece of the browser/OS pie. Anything that helps standardize, is a great thing for advancing the technology. Thank you all those that screwed themselves, by trying to screw others.

Where are your geo. credentials? I live in California, does that make me an expert on California oil deposits?

Unless you live in California, I could care less.Your oil means nothing to me(or at least it shouldn't). 93% of my gas comes from California crude. So why is it that gas prices here, are even effected by 'OPEC? Its a CON, and as far as 'plenty' maybe for you - yourself, but as far as the world is concerned, we better find an alternative soon, if in fact we don't already have one. And pulling out the last drop of 'ballast' from the earth would be a good thing?

Yes it is, yet you seem not to get it. OIL is the biggest CON of all. Evetually? It has been 'running out' for 10 years or more, We reached maximum capasity long ago, and demand has coninued to grow.

The federal appeals court wrote:

"...we uphold the District Court's finding of monopoly power in its entirety."

"...we reject Microsoft's argument that we should vacate the District Court's Finding of Fact 159 as it relates to consumer confusion."

"The District Court found that the restrictions Microsoft imposed in licensing Windows to OEMs prevented many OEMs from distributing browsers other than IE."

"By preventing OEMs from removing visible means of user access to IE, the license restriction prevents many OEMs from pre-installing a rival browser and, therefore, protects Microsoft's monopoly from the competition that middleware might otherwise present. Therefore, we conclude that the license restriction at issue is anticompetitive."

"These restrictions impose significant costs upon the OEMs; prior to Microsoft's prohibiting the practice, many OEMs would change the appearance of the desktop in ways they found beneficial. (March 1997 letter from Hewlett-Packard to Microsoft: "We are responsible for the cost of technical support of our customers, including the 33% of calls we get related to the lack of quality or confusion generated by your product.... We must have more ability to decide how our system is presented to our end users. If we had a choice of another supplier, based on your actions in this area, you would not be our supplier of choice.")."

"Microsoft's primary copyright argument borders upon the frivolous. The company claims an absolute and unfettered right to use its intellectual property as it wishes: "If intellectual property rights have been lawfully acquired," it says, then "their subsequent exercise cannot give rise to antitrust liability." That is no more correct than the proposition that use of one's personal property, such as a baseball bat, cannot give rise to tort liability."

"In sum, we hold that with the exception of the one restriction prohibiting automatically launched alternative interfaces, all the OEM license restrictions at issue represent uses of Microsoft's market power to protect its monopoly, unredeemed by any legitimate justification. The restrictions therefore violate section 2 of the Sherman Act."

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sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt

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Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)

sci.electronics.repair:432950 alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:452606

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accurate as cheap quartz watches?]

sci.electronics.repair:432946 alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:452603

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sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt

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David Maynard simply argues. The rest of us simply jog our memory to a time when Internet Explorer was an add-on component to Windows.

David Maynard is old enough and technically inclined enough to know better.

To imagine that an Internet browser is a necessary part of a personal computer operating system is to suggest that a personal computer cannot run the myriad of extremely valuable programs it in fact ran before Microsoft bound Internet explorer to Windows.

Corporations or any entity that wants its subordinate(s) to use the computer but not use an Internet browser would buy an operating system with no browser.

A really good example IMO would be a parent who wants their kid to have access to the ever increasing universe of information on the Internet but wants a browser specifically programmed/tailored to help keep the kid from stumbling on all of the garbage.

The rest of us might buy an operating system preinstalled with a browser of choice.

Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 03:12:49 -0600

Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)

sci.electronics.repair:432955 alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:452613

Just a troll.

Message-ID:

David Maynard wrote: "The Netscape matter is interesting because they began by giving their browser away..."

David Maynard conveniently forgets his own writing less than 24 hours old.

Assuming David Maynard's claim is true (is anything he says fact and not just agreement with his personal opinion?) about Netscape giving Navigator away is true, it is no different than allowing pirates to steal Windows and later putting the squeeze on us (think Windows Product Activation WPA).

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sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt

accurate as cheap quartz watches?]

Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)

sci.electronics.repair:432952 alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:452608

No, it does not. I can easily and immediately assess the level of ambient noise and adjust the loudness of my voice in consequence. I cannot immediately assess the vocabulary of the person with whom I'm communicating, and so I cannot know whether it is larger or smaller than my own.

Yes, but intelligence is not prescience.

Where?

"Allow pirates to steal it"? So Microsoft is essentially damned if it does and damned if it doesn't.

How?

It's not. The vast majority of money in the PC world is made by companies other than Microsoft.

You don't know for sure?

The "squeeze" is put on pirates, who had never acquired Windows legally to begin with. Why is this bad?

There we go, the old "F**k you Jack, I'm all right" mentality. I already said that where I live we're net exporters of oil yet we still pay horrendously high prices. Taking into account exchange rates, we pay much more than you do. Take a look at the price of crude coming out of the gulf states. It's the goddam stock market and Wall St in general that's keeping prices sky high. GREED.

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properly

sci.electronics.repair:432993 alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:452662

Yes, it does.

Can you remember?

Because you're so forgetful.

You can't even remember your own two hour old argument.

Your short term memory problem would benefit by quoting more than one level in your replies.

In just another of your forgotten writings.

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properly

sci.electronics.repair:432992 alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:452661

Don't need 'em. It's called *known* reserves. You just have to follow the words of the guys who bored the holes. They actually print that stuff for public consumption you know? Gawd, "geo. credentials" what a maroon.

Of all the people on this continent, you guys are the biggest fossil fuel guzzlers of the bunch. With your honkin' big SUVs and your mile long motor homes and other assorted uh-huh toys. What are we up to now, four car families or what? Why don't you sell some of those suckers and save a quart or two? And don't be screaming *too* much about self sufficiency, if it wasn't for the Canadian hydro supplies you folks in California would be groping around in the dark wondering why the goddam light switches don't work. As an aside, you've also screwed up most of your potable fresh water and where are you are your eyeballs swinging now. Why north of course. You know, those dumb Canuks got lots we can have and besides, why should they be allowed to own all that water anyway. Guy, you folks are born super consumers, who give very little thought to consequences of your actions until one resource or another is just about all gone. So please, don't preach to me, you have got *absolutely nothing* to teach me.

Within limits, yes.

If it is forgotten, how are you able to refer to it?

Whether or not what David says is true. You said "assuming," which implies that you didn't know whether it was truth or not and that you did no research.

It's illegal for them to install the same copy of Windows on more than one machine.

And typical American families don't do this, anyway. They buy machines with Windows preinstalled, so no legal issues arise.

Perhaps, but only dishonest people do this.

How? They have Windows preinstalled on their machines, and so they have no reason to pirate it. Additionally, most of them are honest, and so they wouldn't necessarily pirate it even if they had a reason to do so.