OT: Propane prices

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Hi Folks,

Just got a quote for propane summer delivery, California, around $2.70
per gallon. Yikes! That's more than gasoline and it's got less BTUs per
gallon.

I guess I have to accept in the next few hours. Or is there some serious
hope it'll become cheaper in August? If Washington screws up the budget
... maybe not ... ? Anyone else holding out or are y'all buying it now?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

Re: OT: Propane prices
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Is that delivered ??

Or do you have to go get it your self.


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Re: OT: Propane prices
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No, delivered. The tank is leased from the propane company. So we can
only buy from that company. I have double-checked pricing with another
and it was about the same. They nickel and dime a bit for delivery, fuel
surcharges, reg fees and whatnot. So technically delivery is no longer
fully included in that per gallon price.

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--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

Re: OT: Propane prices
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Well, I just swallowed hard and put in the order. Ouch.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

Re: OT: Propane prices

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How much propane do you use?

As people in China and India and Brazil and such reach for
middle-class lives, with electricity and cars and meat and all, and
with the dollar fixing to degrade, expect everything, especially food
and energy, to get a lot more expensive. Some sort of
American/European golden age of plenty will be over soon.

The USA has lots of natural gas and can grow lots of food, but it's
still a world market.

John


Re: OT: Propane prices
On Jul 20, 12:52A0%pm, John Larkin
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It's all marketing, supply and demand.  Our electricity (marginal
rate) is double that equivalent propane, but our natural gas in half
of that.  They extract propane from natural gas well, so drilling cost
is not that much more.  They burn natural gas for electricity, but at
4x cost?


Re: OT: Propane prices
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I think a steam turbine powerplant is only around 30% efficient
if you only need the electricity, and they need to maintain it
and distribute to the electricity so it isn't that far of is it?

I just checked, here a m^3 heating oil is ~2100usd, that's ~8usd/
gallon


-Lasse

Re: OT: Propane prices
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Ouch! Ok, I won't complain about propane prices then :-)

Hint: Get a wood stove. That's what we did. As long as you guys in
Europe keep eating California almonds around Christmas we will have a
perpetual supply of renewable almond orchard wood. It's great, similar
to oak.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

Re: OT: Propane prices
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have district heating here, with a powerplant, a cement factory and a
heating plant burning waste nearby it is much cheaper (and mandatory)

we pay by the m^3 at 40C cooling 1MWh is ~45usd

if I got all the btu/gallon btu/MWh conversions right I think that is
about
half of what you pay for propane


-Lasse

Re: OT: Propane prices
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Direct gas generators are 50% to 60%, including my 60A unit.
And I am using less than half of the capacity of the generator.
Even so, i pay around $20 of gas to reduce $80 of electricity.
Don't forget that they already have a mark-up on my natural gas.

Re: OT: Propane prices
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that's sounds high, how many kwh per m^3 gas do you get ?

-Lasse

Re: OT: Propane prices
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We use around 800 KWhr per month.  First 400 for 11cents and second
400 for 22cents.  Using around 15 therms or 1.5MBTU, we eliminated the
second 400 KWhr.  But we might also be using more or less electricity
lately.  Don't know or care about m^3 factor, but just care about the
money.

Re: OT: Propane prices

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Direct gas generators are 50% to 60%, including my 60A unit.
And I am using less than half of the capacity of the generator.
Even so, i pay around $20 of gas to reduce $80 of electricity.
Don't forget that they already have a mark-up on my natural gas.
----------------------------------------------------

Are you using the waste heat to heat the house?
If not, your numbers dont sound right.




Re: OT: Propane prices


snipped-for-privacy@fonz.dk schrieb:

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Hello,

modern combinations of gas and steam turbines are much better than 30 %,
the best ones over 60 %. The gas turbine must resist very hot gas.

Bye


Re: OT: Propane prices
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Wow!  I filled up with heating oil in the spring.  ~$2.50/ gal.  We
use about 500 gallons a year.  (Nice cold winters in Buffalo, NY)

George H.

Re: OT: Propane prices
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Actually, not much. Fill up will be 190 gallons and that's for a year.
Last year we paid $1.70, so the difference will be almost 200 bucks. Oh
well.

Now imagine a family that barely squeaks by and did not switch to wood
heating like we did. It'll eat them alive. That's the main rason I
asked, there's lots of elderly people on fixed income out here who must
heat with propane.


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Yup. Only public service employees will continue in the golden ages with
their fat pensions, courtesy of the taxpayer (meaning us).


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People out here are gradually starting to grow their own stuff again,
including animals for their meat supply. That might not be all that bad.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

Re: OT: Propane prices


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Propane is a byproduct of refining gasoline. I was amazed at the price
of a quart of oil, $4.60 at Walmart. For $2 more I can get synthetic
Mobile 1. I remember Castrol for under a buck a quart, those days are
gone.

Cheers



Re: OT: Propane prices
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Lately Walmart has IME not always had best pricing. You've got to price
it out. Don't know this place, was just the first web hit that has the
kind of oil I use:

http://www.ameriworldproducts.com/chevron10w40.html

No-name brands are sometimes much less and often come from the same
production facility as name brands.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

Re: OT: Propane prices

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With propane this is not a problem but I've experienced car fuel from
no-name gas stations can be seriously less economic (around 10% less
milage) than the branded ones.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
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Re: OT: Propane prices
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Yes, I've seen that as well. The engine tended towards pinging with the
cheap stuff.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

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