Laminate flooring and ESD?

Gentlemen,

My office and lab carpets are nearly shot. The office from all those roller chairs, the lab from, well, a few kablouies and stuff. Here in the US I can't find the foam-backed short-loop carpet I had in Germany which never created any ESD issues. Contemplated wood flooring such as bamboo but a friend advised against that. Occasionally the dogs are here and when the Fedex truck pulls up they perform a Fred Flintstone start

-> big scratches. He suggested laminate.

Not that I like laminate but does anyone know how ESD-prone it is? Any recommended brands? I mean the regular stuff, not top-Dollar specialty products.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
Reply to
Joerg
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If by "laminate" you mean "fake linoleum", the regular stuff is not considered ESD safe. You can either buy conductive wax, which seems to be pretty good, or you can buy conductive laminate which is probably that "top dollar specialty" item that you mentioned, and is butt-ugly to boot.

Were I going to go that route I'd pencil out the cost of keeping the floor waxed (including my own labor costs) vs. conductive laminate.

You can also get a spray-on ESD treatment for carpets, so you can use the regular "corporate" short-pile carpeting.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
Reply to
Tim Wescott

I meant more the "laminate hardwood" stuff, looks like wood flooring but just not quite as good (too shiny). Some people call it engineered wood. Among homeowners it is frowned upon for lack of "poshness" but that picture changes for people who have large dogs or small children.

That I'd definitely want to avoid.

The only short loop stuff I've seen is the kind that must be glued down with some stinky heavy duty goo. In Europe they have this carpet with a foam back. Spread a dose of milky odorless fluid, lay the carpet, done. When you need a new carpet you wet it all real good, pick it up and there is barely any residue to clean. Glued down office carpet needs a serious body builder to pull that up.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
Reply to
Joerg

I'm interested also. The wife says my office looks "like shit" ;-)

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
         America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave
Reply to
Jim Thompson

For a large enough order I bet you could have vinyl flooring custom printed with just about anything you wanted. Even a large pile of ...

Well, you get the idea.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
Reply to
Tim Wescott

N. and M. seem to have entered a conspiracy because exactly that is what happened here this weekend. If it was just me, I'd keep the carpet another 5-10 years.

Since you have small Dachshunds and your switch-mode gizmos explode virtually on SPICE instead of molten solder and stuff like here you might consider real hardwood. It looks so much nicer. I really like the bamboo flooring. But in my case it's unlikely to survive :-(

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
Reply to
Joerg

I dunno -- excited dogs on a well-waxed floor can be pretty entertaining.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
Reply to
Tim Wescott

Happened after I laid tile. Rottweiler heard a fox bark. Came out of the hallway sliding on his butt. Now they have figured out how to "glide" into place right in front of the pantry where the food is stocked.

The problem is they don't give up when traction isn't there, they just increase the rpm of their paws. Yesterday I looked at the aftermath of when a boxer did that on a bamboo floor. Not pretty.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
Reply to
Joerg

Yep. I've been thinking of wood also. Though some of the cork flooring is nice.

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
         America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave
Reply to
Jim Thompson

Not nearly as much as a cat ;-)

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
         America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave
Reply to
Jim Thompson

That's why the cat is de-clawed... "reversed-engine" damage ;-)

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
         America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave
Reply to
Jim Thompson

Put a sandpaper on the floor. If they try, that will wear them up to their ears :-)

Vladimir Vassilevsky

DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant

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Reply to
Vladimir Vassilevsky

At one point when we were growing up we had a good half dozen kittens and a hall floor with a 90 degree bend. There's nothing like a herd of kittens scrambling around on waxed linoleum to get you rolling on the floor.

It was so much fun us kids kept the floor swept and waxed -- at least until the kittens grew out of it.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
Reply to
Tim Wescott

Carpet isn't usually too bad. Chairs are the real bummer. Slide your butt off a typical lab-type chair and you'll take away a huge charge.

But it's probably worse up there in the hills. Here on the coast, the humidity seldom gets below 50%, and I'm convinced there's a fine layer of salt spray on everything, given how stuff rusts here.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

For those of us who drop the occasional component or important screw on the floor, give some consideration to maximizing the contrast by selecting an appropriate pattern/color.

--
Paul Hovnanian	paul@hovnanian.com
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Marching to a different kettle of fish.
Reply to
Paul Hovnanian P.E.

Well, there we never skimped. Only the best orthopedic grade chairs, mainly because my back isn't that great anymore. The cloth on those is really good, no ESD issues. It also seems to last forever.

We are often close to 0% which is why people with heat pumps are paying through the nose and A/C doesn't work well. When I open my EMI box you can sometimes see a large blueish flash-over followed by a loud pop.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
Reply to
Joerg

Have you considered stone or ceramic tile? A bit spendy perhaps, but tough.

For ESD protection, consider an anti-ESD mat (equipped with a grounding lug). They make rolling a chair around easier than on carpet or uneven surfaces as an added benefit.

--
Paul Hovnanian	paul@hovnanian.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Marching to a different kettle of fish.
Reply to
Paul Hovnanian P.E.

For 0402, 0201 and SC-75 it doesn't really matter anymore once your eyes are over 40. Not a chance.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
Reply to
Joerg

It's actually not much more expensive. I did over 1000 sqft in porcelain over the years, with my own hands. It's just the knees that hurt after a while. My wife thinks tile isn't so cool in here, too cold. When it comes to decor she's boss. And after I have laid tile it will be a bear to ever get them out again because there is a 2" concrete layer below. Plus I "back-butter" them and always make sure there is 100% thinset contact.

Sure but ESD mats are plastic and I've never seen one last more than a few months. They tear, just like those plastic carpet protector mats.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
Reply to
Joerg

ESD wax is worthless applied on an insulator as well. It only works when applied on properly installed ESD tiling.

Your maintenance costs alone would warrant the correct tile being used.

That is NOT "ESD treatment", it is "Anti-static" treatment. BIG difference. It merely means that in a high humidity environments (a requirement for proper function), it will not accumulate a charge or apply electrons to something moving across it via triboelectric effect.

ESD MEANS that it DISCHARGES to ground, anything that carries a charge.

Rarely are such elements hole carriers. In nearly ALL cases, there is an electron excess type charge... a negative charge.

I would get 8 inch ESD tiles, placed on a know well grounded slab using conductive adhesive and also place a brass or steel tile grid down of 50 mil X 0.125" flat stock. That way, the tiles remain grounded, the grid remains grounded, and the wax passes discharge capacity testing for a longer period.

As an aside, standard heel straps, even on a non-conducting floor take the wearer so much closer to ground than insulative shoes that they, along with a simple smock are all that are required for personnel.

One should also ALWAYS insure that assemblies are carried in ESD bags, NOT PINK POLY. This would be metal out Faraday cage type bags, OR full on dissipative black conductive bags, and ensure that one grounds one's self at the ESD workstation before opening the bag or touching any circuit sitting at said workstation.

Reply to
ChairmanOfTheBored

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