Further bandgap troubles

Jeez, if they hadn't already been laid off, I'd think that would definitely be the indicator for all of the really good programmers to start looking for new jobs! -- "We have a perfectly good, functioning feature in here, that we'd like you to remove 100% because we're trying to force our customers to change to the new package."

"Jim Thompson" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Does a given symbol let you select from multiple templates? Do you you effectively have to switch libraries when you want to go from, e.g., symbols that end up generating SPICE netlists to, say, Dracula netlists?

When I select a device from the "Get Part" list it brings that part's template into the netlist. (I don't have "footprint" configured, because I don't do PCB's, though that capability is available. I guess "ChipArea" is somewhat like a "footprint".)

The one that is used is dependent on what I have checked in Options/Netlist Setting.

When I am simulating, the "Template" netlist setting is used. (I know, this is confusing, but "Template" is the default name that was there before I got smart.)

When I want to hand the design off to my chip layout person, I simply change the Options/Netlist Setting to "LVS", then netlist. Only connectivity then shows... no parasitic extraction data that is needed for precise high-speed simulation.

If I want to calculate chip area I select "ChipArea", then netlist. My son Aaron wrote a post-processor that then reads thru this "ChipArea" netlist and computes the total... counting up thousands of devices otherwise becomes a tedious task :-)

I also have an "HSpice" template to cope with handing-off to those weird expensive simulators ;-) ...Jim Thompson

Thanks for the explanation, Jim. That's more powerful than what Capture gives you...

Another feature I created (with some advice from Charlie, Brian and Mohi) forces "test" items, like voltage sources into the .CIR file rather than into the .NET file, so the netlist I hand off has no non-chip stuff in it. ...Jim Thompson

I think something similar can be done with Crapture, just more tedious. ...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at

I can see November from my house :-)

wrote in

through the

step closer to

PSpice starts

I can

or

point

then.

But why?

Me? A liberal? That would be the day :-)

If a CAD exists that already does all this out-of-the-box it's the capitalistic thing not to switch to one that can't do that.

If you're happy with your present CAD, why do you keep asking ?:-) ...Jim Thompson

Because I am not 100% happy. It lacks hierarchy. Other than that it's next to perfect, almost like Orcad-SDT was.

This is like with laptops. In the early 90's a few (very few) of them were perfect. Boot times

Let me add one. The HP omnibook 300 was a Windows 3.11 (only) system with an integrated pop-out mouse that worked on table tops and used standard AA battery technology you could buy anywhere in the world for nothing much. Slept when you closed the lid -- zero delay. Started when you opened it -- zero delay. Applications all still there, right where you left them. Word and Excel built into ROM. Ran in sleep state for close to a month. Ran some 8 hours with constant use -- though I think the tiny 1" disk drive (40Mb) wasn't always in use. Weight was just under 3 pounds and it easily fit into a purse. I have one here. Love the damned thing and there has been nothing close to replacing it since. Still use it, sometimes.

Even then, they don't do it. Microsoft products were in ROM on the omnibook 300. That means Word, Excel, DOS 5.0, their laplink remote access code and Excel database support, and Windows 3.11. Part of why it came up so fast and why the applications did, too.

I have a Lenovo T510 with flash disk drive. Yes, it boots fast. 17 seconds for a cold boot. 5, I think, to come back from sleep. But the difference between 5 seconds and zero seconds is quite noticeable. With the Omnibook, when someone stops by, I just drop the lid and talk without thinking for even a second about opening it up again. Even with the fast restart of the Lenovo, I leave it open until I know if the conversation is going to last longer than a short time because of the delays and the annoyance of logging back in. It's a difference that matters to me and affects what I do.

For a lot of typing work (which is a substantial part of he work for many), we don't need 3GHz processors and read-around write queues and burst mode PCI and so on. Nor color, to be honest. It would be enough, with modern processors and chipsets to clock them way, way down. I don't know why these fancy "low power" laptop-targeted processors and chipsets with modern feature sizes cannot be made to be FAR, FAR less power hogs than they were back in 1991 running at those 1991 clock rates -- which were certainly good enough for a usable omnibook 300 and doing word processing. But somehow, that doesn't seem possible anymore.

Jon

Nice! I didn't know HP could do that back then. The Compaq Contura could also sleep that way with instant-on but it was risky. If the battery decided to run out or pop out during a rough landing all your programs and so on were gone and you needed a normal reboot.

Ok, but could you upgrade or was it really ROM-ROM? What did that laptop cost back then?

Check out some others. Many laptops have a zero-delay sleep mode. But I wouldn't want to have a flash drive. SPICE sims can probably wreck that quickly.

This is where the Intel Atom processor comes in. My Samsung NC-10 has one. It is really slow so SPICE is no fun on the road but that's ok, save tons of power. The old Contura from 20 years ago had clock reduction circuitry and if it had the battery of this Samsung it would probably have run close to 20h on a charge. A technique the younger laptop designers did no longer master until almost 20 years later. Now it's often touted as new but in reality it isn't.

Remote access/VPN... who needs power in their laptop? ...Jim Thompson

As I've said before. If I was starting out, or had the funds, I would probably go with Altium. The ability to do 3D with the board and the enclosure would pay for itself very quickly!

Charlie

Yep, right after they laid everyone off is when they removed the .INI switch. I still wish Microsim had just decided to outcompete Orcad instead of merging. It would only have taken about two years... ;-)

Although the real problem was when CCT was bought by Cadence. That was the autorouter being used by PCBoards, and we didn't have anyone that could spin us our own.

Charlie

A lot of packages are adding 3D these days... if Leon Heller were here he'd be trumpeting Pulsonix for having it, and then I'd be mentioning that while, yes, it does, it's kinda a half-hearted implementation. :-)

You've probably mentioned it, but since I'm not remembering if so... which package did you use for your color reader device?

---Joel

well.

The work around (from the support people) is to create a different hierarchical block for each entity. ...to which I replied "that's nice".

Hi Joel, After a lot of consideration, I am presently looking at the New Age AA Battery Enclosure. For one thing, it is smaller while still holding two cells, but is still big enough to fit my circuit in. As a matter of fact, I have been able to take a couple of packages from MSOP back up to SOIC to make it easier on me when I prototype. My solder paste technique still gives me a lot of bridges on those MSOPs. I just wish that there was a PIC24 with 128K that came in an SOIC.

The other nice thing is, when talking to their sales rep, a nice lady named Evila, they were willing to give me the rough costs of getting these boards CNC'd for my use. It was a whole lot less than the Serpac boxes I had been using!

Biggest complaint I have had so far is that the battery terminals aren't inlcuded with the boxes, and they don't make that apparent until you order them!

As for Altium, I like that you get the whole package, schematic capture, PCB layout, auto route, and FPGA design all for the one low price. I gotta get me one of those nanoboards for Christmas! 8-)

Charlie

If you are at an airport, the flight is delayed, and everyone is gobbling up WiFi bandwidth to watch a football game you do need power in the laptop. The worst I have seen was in Vegas. Two guys sitting next to each other watching the same ballgame via Internet, each on their own laptop.

While I CAN do simulations on my laptop, big stuff I'd just remote access and let it churn. Log back in later to see the results.

Most laptop/cellphone users are pansy-dorks... never outgrew video games :-( ...Jim Thompson