It's a lot more scientific than anything the rest of the wusses tried, ie, nothing. I learned more in 2 minutes of experimenting then anybody else did in hours of typing.
So be brave, or creative, or anything non-wussey and actually measure something. Get us some comparable AC numbers, for example.
Or shut up.
John
Don't mind me, John. Since being exposed to high concentrations of mold spores in Ottawa 5 years ago, I have been in a vegetative state, very ill from the mold toxins that are around us constantly.
I am gradually learning how to process my clothing where the spores germinate, and I am finally starting to get some control over the illness.
I am starting to get my mind back, and the paper I posted on SPICE analysis of crystal oscillators was very encouraging to me. It told me I am recovering and am still able to find creative solutions to problems.
But I need to increase my memory and vocabulary. You tend to lose things after not using them for years. So I try to pick simple topics to respond to, and hope I don't get into too much trouble. Sorry if I disturbed you.
The full recovery should occur when I am able to get a machine working that will kill the spores. From the numerous symptoms I have experienced, it seems possible the toxins and metabolism products of spores can be very damaging. This may contribute to arthritus, MS, sore muscles and joints, digestion problems, emotional problems, loss of memory and ability to focus, and many other vague symptoms that seem to accompany old age and currently have no cure.
My most important project right now is to learn how to destroy spores that grow in bedding. These are activated by body heat and moisture, and you breath a high concentration of spores for many hours each night. Over many years, I believe these toxins degrade your immune system and ability to heal. Then the damage process accelerates.
Nothing we have in the normal household will kill spores. I have tried chemicals, acids, bases, enzymes, and various industrial products that are normally used to kill spores, such as proprionic acid (used to keep mold from growing in bread). I tried folding blankets and putting them in boxes to heat in the microwave. This gets you up to the temperature of steam, but the spores require 20 to 40 degrees C higher to have much effect. So all I managed to do was to start some microwave fires in the kitchen, which are a serious problem since the fabrics ten to burst into flame as soon as you unwrap them and expose them to oxygen.
Part of the problem killing mold is you tend to kill off the weak portion of the population, and the strong stuff comes back with a vengance. So I would get sicker and sicker.
But after learning a whole new way of living to minimize spore growth in the environment, and many small details to constantly check, I am able to accomplish a bit more. I am trying to make an ozone machine that will penetrate the fabric and destroy the outer wall of the spores. However, I am going a bit slower than usual. I had to sell my lab in Ottawa to pay the rent, and a job I was hoping to get didn't pan out. So here I am now trying to make a 200 watt PWM switcher to generate the high voltage, and the only instrument I have is a Wallmart 3 1/2 digit dvm. But I was able to study the problems in SPICE, and come up with a slightly new method of driving fets at the large offset votages needed. So hopefully, I should have some results soon.
If the machine works, and my theories prove to be even partially correct, it could potentially affect the health of most of the people on the planet.
Regards,
Mike Monett
On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 20:46:59 -0700, John Larkin Gave us:
Yet you recorded nor attempted to record the surface area of contact, which is 100% proportionate to skin resistance. Dry hands, wet hands, lotion bathed hands??? All make a difference, and pinching the lead between the thumb and forefinger is definitive of very little.
Grow up.
You obviously didn't read the thread. I mentioned a 40kV event in one response.
On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 00:27:34 -0400, Mike Monett Gave us:
Why no mention of respiratory illness? That is one of the most health threatening.
I would not be inclined to do any form of "testing" to determine the physiological responses of my body to AC voltages as death is always a possability. If you wish to experiment have a person trained in CPR with you and a phone near by to call for medical assistance.
I have had some involvement in Voltage Reduction Devices (VRD's) as used on electric welders (not from a design point, only to evaluate from the point of an end user). These devices are designed to reduce the open circuit voltage of either an AC or DC welder to a level considered safe when not actually welding. There is a significant amount of literature around that details fatalities as a result of current flow through the body when using welders, what the recommended precautions are, and the results of coronial enquiries and control authority investigations into the electrocution of persons using welders.
Many (especially older) welders have open circuit voltage approaching, and in some instances exceeding, 100 volts AC, and welder operators are renowned for getting a "bite" when changing rods. More common open circuit voltage from welding machines is 50 to 80 volts. (eg, Lincoln Idealarc DC 400, a very common welder in fabrication shops, max open circuit voltage of 67 volts DC).
Typically, electrocution when welding has occurred as a result of current flowing through the chest cavity when the operator is in a situation where the environment is less then ideal (eg, inside a vessel where the vessel is earthed to the welder return lead, the operator is sweating due to poor air circulation and wearing protective clothing that promotes sweating). The operator may hold the hand piece between forearm and chest to remove a glove to allow him to pick up a rod. While doing this he may lean back against earthed steel behind him. Current may then flow from the front of the chest through to the material he is leaning against causing ventricular fibrillation and possible death if assistance is not immediate.
What has been identified is that the effects of ventricular fibrillation are not always immediate to the person, and irregularity of the heart beat can be occurring for up to days with the person not being aware.
It is to be noted that there are no known instances of death in Australia by electrocution from a DC welder but a significant number from AC welders. The likelyhood of ventricular fibrillation from DC is relatively remote evidently.
Now consider EV's and accidents where wet.
Yes, asthma is very serious, as well as allergies and a host of other problems that might be aggravated by mold toxins and byproducts of metabolism. There will be a tremendous amount of work to do finding candidates, determining protocols, documenting the slightest details, and so on.
Perhaps the strongest indication may be from individuals themselves. If they tend to leave the program easily, it may not be helping much. However, if they give a strong response they want to continue, maybe there is something helping them.
A great deal will rest on the design of experiments and procedures to help determine if there are any reactions, and how to measure these things. I certainly don't know much about this where people are involved, and will have a lot to learn. But where to start?
Regards,
Mike Monett
A friend of mine had a pet rabbit that used to regularly bite through live 240V Mains cables to lamps etc. and managed to survive.
-Mike
Oh, I knew the approximate AC voltages already. I was just checking your wimp-factor, and it looks like I knew that pretty well, too.
John
What a group of "electronics designers"! Don't know how much voltage it would take to tickle, and afraid to find out.
Mighty fine bunch of typists, though.
John
Why don't you take your own bait and see how much AC you can take from arm to arm, John. What say you start at 85 volt AC and work up. Also ensure maximum contact surface area for the electrodes and also use a conductive paste. After all you are not assessing body resistance, etc, but determining the maximum current flow that your torso is capable of flowing without suffering ventricular fibrillation. If you don't report back we can all hold a wake for you.
When I was a kid the tongue test for PP3 batteries was very common, but I abandoned this method after discovering that a loaded test with a multimeter proved that the strength of the "tongue-tingle" was a very unreliable test of a battery's state of charge.
What the heck is wrong with you people? This thread is about how much
*voltage* might be dangerous to work with. A simple way to get an idea would be to set up a reasonable engineering-workbench type of situation, start at zero voltage, and work up to get some points on the graph. I did it for DC, per the OP's question, and reported the numbers. Everybody else theorizes and postures and bluffs, except one brave soul who screwed up his courage and licked a 1.5 volt battery, then wrote a 1000-word essay on why he dared not go further.Keep on typing, folks; it suits you.
John
Been following this thread, and decided to do this experiment. I connected a DMM to one lead of a 9V battery, and did the "tongue test". Battery, meter, and tongue form a simple circuit loop. Here's what I found:
With an old, standard 9V battery (7V open circuit voltage), I get
0.7-0.8 mA. With a relatively new lithium 9v battery (9.5V open circuit), I get 2 mA.In both cases, you get that uncomfortable-but-bearable tingle.
Mark
Is all that stuff about mould toxins for real? - The mental case in the flat above went through a phase of repeatedly breaking the water pipe and flooding me out about a decade ago, the flat still has a smell of mould that I can just about mask with plug-in air fresheners in every room, and my health has been deteriorating for years!
Do a search for Nazi archived data - they were expert at using just enough electricity to torture without killing!
I wonder if the I:V graph of a human tongue (or skin) is nonlinear. I suspect so.
John
Do a search? Right, more typing. In the words of another Nazi,
"One experiment is worth a thousand expert opinions."
- Wernher von Braun
What is this fascination you have with excrement?
John
Ian,
If you smell mold, get it fixed or move immediately. Yes, all the stuff you have read is true. The problem is you don't realize the damage it is doing until it is to late. That's what happened to me.
While I was living at 175 Greenbank Rd in Ottawa, my neighbour was living in a house with a similar mold problem next door at 173 Greenbank. Both of us were in excellent health before living there. She now has a serious heart problem where nothing was wrong before, and I haven't heard from her in years so she may have died. The decline in her health was extremely dramatic and very serious.
The lady that moved into my old house had an infant girl. She became constantly ill with all kinds of problems, and the mother started having headaches, the same as me. I do not know what happened to her either.
Air freshners should be outlawed. They do not solve the root problem. Get the mold problem fixed right away, or leave. Immediately.
This is the most important task in front of you right now. Once you lose your health, you can never get it back.
Regards,
Mike Monett
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