Raspberry Pi

He didn't say he wrote it, or indeed had the source code. For all we know it's written for DOS... in assembler.

Theo

It's Paul's gateway, so he's making the choice to emit messages with timestamps which he knows are incorrect rather than to write, download, buy or steal software which will do the right thing.

On 09/19/18, Theo pondered and said... Th> Roger Bell_West wrote: Th> > "I am knowingly sending out articles with incorrect timestamps because I Th> > can't be bothered to fix my software". Th> > Th> > Yes, I'm afraid that's quite clear. Th> Th> He didn't say he wrote it, or indeed had the source code. For all we Th> know it's written for DOS... in assembler. Th> Th> Theo Th> Th> --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05

Thanks for the balanced reply Theo.

It's software called SoupGate that was written for the specific use of gating Fido style packets to/from Usenet news. It's nothing I wrote nor have access to the source code to modify etc. I am not a coder anyway. It is legacy software that was DOS to start with (I think) and had been ported by the author to run on Windows in the mid 1990s. It is configured correctly as per the docs and is not (despite Rogers attempt at crafting some fiction about what I am thinking etc.) sending out articles incorrectly. It has been running just fine for several years and enabled several online communities to engage on multiple topics across different online channels.

Best, Paul

On 09/19/18, Roger Bell_West pondered and said... RB> It's Paul's gateway, so he's making the choice to emit messages with RB> timestamps which he knows are incorrect rather than to write, download, RB> buy or steal software which will do the right thing.

A gateway that posts a message to a NNTP server in a specific timezone that it resides in, is not posting the message incorrectly. You say I am not 'doing the right thing' but I'm going to have to disagree with you on that count.

Feel free to download a copy of the software, expect the configuration options and suggest changes to settings if you can see something that helps solve the issue you take umbridge with. That's a far more productive response than resorting to petty 'he can't be bother to fix and issue' character attacks. That's just a needless and petty approach to take.

hat

Well if you know what time zone is going to be attached to your posts then it is up to you to set your own clock to that time zone. Imho that would be the correct thing to do.

If it doesn't specify the timezone, or it attaches a wrong timezone, then yes, it posts incorrectly. You use defective (obsolete) software in the sense that it does not adhere to the usenet message interchange standard as described by RFC 1036, from which I quote below. If you can't fix it, the solution would be to take your shitty software offline. Nobody has bbs access but not internet access, have they? So the gateway is not needed.

STATUS OF THIS MEMO

This document defines the standard format for the interchange of network News messages among USENET hosts.

2.1.2. Date

The "Date" line (formerly "Posted") is the date that the message was originally posted to the network. Its format must be acceptable both in RFC-822 and to the getdate(3) routine that is provided with the Usenet software. This date remains unchanged as the message is propagated throughout the network. One format that is acceptable to both is:

Wdy, DD Mon YY HH:MM:SS TIMEZONE

Several examples of valid dates appear in the sample message above. Note in particular that ctime(3) format:

Wdy Mon DD HH:MM:SS YYYY

is not acceptable because it is not a valid RFC-822 date. However, since older software still generates this format, news implementations are encouraged to accept this format and translate it into an acceptable format.

There is no hope of having a complete list of timezones. Universal Time (GMT), the North American timezones (PST, PDT, MST, MDT, CST, CDT, EST, EDT) and the +/-hhmm offset specifed in RFC-822 should be supported. It is recommended that times in message headers be transmitted in GMT and displayed in the local time zone.

Good one. I bet they can't be bovvered.

On 09/20/18, Axel Berger pondered and said... AB> Well if you know what time zone is going to be attached to your posts AB> then it is up to you to set your own clock to that time zone. Imho that AB> would be the correct thing to do. AB>

Thanks for the feedback. I believe that the gateway software is set up and configured correctly as per the docs that shipped with it. The TZ setting is set to +1200 as that is the country where the software is located that is posting the gated messages. The software looks to the local TZ variable on the computer it resides on to determine the figure to use. There's nothing else I can adjust that amends local clocks each time a message from another time zone comes in to match it. I think if that was the intention of the author of the software they would have set it up that way.

Cheers.

On 09/19/18, A. Dumas pondered and said... AD> > A gateway that posts a message to a NNTP server in a specific timezone t AD> > it resides in, is not posting the message incorrectly. AD> AD> If it doesn't specify the timezone, or it attaches a wrong timezone, then AD> yes, it posts incorrectly. You use defective (obsolete) software in the AD> sense that it does not adhere to the usenet message interchange standard AD> as described by RFC 1036, from which I quote below. If you can't fix it, AD> the solution would be to take your shitty software offline. Nobody has

The gateway software is operating as intended. It's attaching the correct timezone stamp to a message being posted by it. I think this is key point we differ on. The software is not defective because it doesn't run the way you think it should. It runs as intended. I do agree it's legacy software but it was being used quite happily back in the late 1990s and *nothing* has changed to it since. Turns out there may be source code for it (when I did a quick look thanks to Google) so if you know C and feel so inclined why not download the code and modify it to a way you think it should work.

AD> the solution would be to take your shitty software offline. Nobody has AD> bbs access but not internet access, have they? So the gateway is not AD> needed.

Those who choose to run a BBS system, of which there are many, are quite happy to use a gateway service to enjoy bi directional content between a BBS using BBS technology and Usenet. The system is well used and carries hundreds of messages between the two ecosystems each day. A blanket statement that something is not required seems pretty ignorant to me when you're not engaged in the scene.

And in the 1990s Fidonet was notorious for poor quality headers on Usenet posts, so I don't think you are helping your argument there. When your (as in you run it) software modifies a header to make it into a lie, that's where it is defective. "It runs as intended" implies you believe the authors wanted this lie to happen, instead of "didn't think of this edge case".

There is a lot of source code online. If you don't provide a link, no one will know which is the code you use. And if someone did fix the source, would you commit to running the fixed version?

(I'll also repeat, my news reader software has ZERO issues threading these Fidonet posts because it doesn't slavishly thread based on date. The Fidonet gateway is note the only thing which needs a good coat of mud here.)

Elijah

------ is using a derivative of Larry Wall's rn program

On 09/20/18, Eli the Bearded pondered and said... Et> And in the 1990s Fidonet was notorious for poor quality headers on Et> Usenet posts, so I don't think you are helping your argument there. When Et> your (as in you run it) software modifies a header to make it into a Et> lie, that's where it is defective. "It runs as intended" implies you Et> believe the authors wanted this lie to happen, instead of "didn't think Et> of this edge case".

You make many assumptions all of which are inaccurate and untrue. It's your view that the software is creating a 'lie' it's not a view I share. It's your opinion the software is defective. I disagree. For you to suggest I am working to help perpetuate a lie the original author intended to inflict on [insert victim here] is laughable.

Et> There is a lot of source code online. If you don't provide a link, no Et> one will know which is the code you use. And if someone did fix the Et> source, would you commit to running the fixed version?

Google 'Soupgate' it's not hard.

Et> (I'll also repeat, my news reader software has ZERO issues threading Et> these Fidonet posts because it doesn't slavishly thread based on date. Et> The Fidonet gateway is note the only thing which needs a good coat of Et> mud here.)

So why go to town on this when for over three years countless others who have encountered posts via the gateway software in Usenet have happily had no problems what so ever.

I'm dropping the thread now. There seems to be no useful purpose in engaging in a dialogue that seems destined to roll on in pointless debate.

When the time zone is added that changes the meaning of the date header to be obviously wrong, I call that a lie. If you can't agree with that, there's no further point in arguing.

If you look over the posts, I'm not making most of the noise.

Elijah

------ but on the whole would prefer headers that don't lie

Re: Re: Raspberry Pi By: Paul Hayton to Richard Kettlewell on Thu Sep 20 2018 10:20 pm

PH> I also wonder if when using +1200 (which is correct for New Zealand where PH> the gateway is based) if I should have added GMT to the time stamp to PH> avoid any confusion? e.g. +1200 GMT

My Synchronet BBS says this message time is UTC+12. Written 46 minutes ago apparently. So it looks good here.

Hopefully your changes will work for those using usenet apps.. :)

Ttyl :-), Al

... Should I or shouldn't I?... Too late, I did!

The interpretation of the Date: header field isn?t open to opinion. There?s a right way to do it, and your software is doing something else.

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Following the rfc822, I think they lack the GMT (or whatever). So it should be:

Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 14:18:45 GMT +1200

Bye Jack

The timezone is required by the syntax.

However, there is a way to represent ?I have no idea what timezone the poster is in?, which is a timezone value of -0000. See the discussion in:

My recommendation would be to use a proper news client rather than broken and obsolete gateway software, though.

No, that is not permitted by the syntax. It also makes no sense. The timestamp could (hypothetically) be in +1200, or in GMT, but not both.

It?s an incoherent response to the original complaint, too. You?re creating an interoperability problem, not a human comprehension problem. Adding things that a human might understand cannot fix interoperability problems; only adding correct information in the correct syntax can do that.

No, that is not valid syntax for a Date: header field. As discussed in the other article it also makes no sense.

He has it set to his local time zone. What other time zone should it be set to?

Actually, it is difficult here in the US. Some spoiled idiot professional sports person apparently threw a bowl of soup at one of his coaches. Typing 'soupgate' into google will get you nothing but articles about that, or some twitter stuff about a guy who is looking for good soup.

No references to software. :(

Mike