Use of Extension Cord

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 06:36:11 -0000, via , "Peter Hucker" spake thusly:

Yeah, that would serve you quite well when working with 500KV, or sensitive communication gear, or precise avionics, servo-mechanisms, etc etc etc, wouldn't it? As in, it says "-48VDC," but voltage is voltage, so I'll go ahead and be imprecise and apply 120VAC. Or how about, this device uses 60Hz, but I'm British, so I'll go ahead and use 50Hz, I don't give a shit about precision meanings. Good stuff, mate, thanks for the laughs.

Reply to
Big Mouth Billy Bass
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Ding..."And theeeer'es the bell, fighters return to your corners! Whew, this thread has been awesome! OK girls, my turn.

The reason that extension cord use is being increasingly written into instruction manuals and labeling on consumer grade equipment is for legal protection of the manufacturer or brander. People are bound to do stupid things, and in this country they tend to want to sue companies afterwards. Hence, shampoo bottles discouraging eating of the contents and bicycles with stickers all over them saying not for night use. There is no electrical reason why an extension cord can not be used with any appliance, and of course it is necessary to use one of the proper gauge.

Part of this flame war appears to have been one poster's use of the word electrocution. By definition, that word means to have been killed by electric current. Who ever said that common use is to refer to any electric shock is wrong. My students do that all the time, and I always correct them. Shocked is shocked. Dead is dead. Apparently, this individual also chose to use the word "pedant" improperly as well. Ah well, so much for 6th Grade English class. He goes on to say that he doesn't walk around with a dictionary in his throat. Perhaps he should. Defending that which is wrong, not only does not make it right, it's also painfully illogical.

Furthermore, if you get shocked by a drill and fall off a ladder, the cause of death is the broken neck or head trauma, not the electric drill. A coroner or M.E. would find the cause of death to be the actual cause of death, not the circumstances under which the poor sap died.

Generally, AC kills by power dissipation. In other words, your body, which has a resistance impedes the flow of current, resulting in a voltage drop. this causes the body to dissipate heat. In essence, you're getting cooked. Done to a turn, in fact. If you take a hot dog, and stick the stripped end of the hot side of a standard 16/3 pigtail power cord into one end, while inserting the stripped end of the neutral lead into the other you will be able to cook your dog to crispy deliciousness in about 3 to 5 minutes. If you touch the weiner during this process, you will not be electrocuted nor will you be shocked. You may however, burn your fingers.

Alright, it's necessary here, to state that it is actually the friction caused by the changing of polarity of the water molecules in your body, but you get the gist.

Here in the United States, we have a place called Florida. Florida has a device they affectionately dub "Ol' Sparky". The electrodes of said device, are connected (H) to your head, (N) to your left leg, a parallel (H) around your upper torso to your spine and (N) to your right arm. Current is then applied in bursts of 60 seconds, 30 seconds and again at 60 seconds. The reason for turning it on and off like that is to keep the body from catching fire, while insuring that the poor mook is "most sincerely dead." In the early days, several individuals did indeed burst into flames.

I saw one post in here which used Ohms law to show Vdrop/foot of copper wire. Good math, and indeed correct for DC. AC however has significantly lower losses in copper wire. In order to do the equivalent calculation for AC, one would need to calculate for Z (impedance). In any but the most extreme cases, copper wire offers almost no noticeable impedance. Can you imagine what the energy loss and ensuant heat dissapation would be, in long wire runs, from substations in rural areas, were this not so?

I'd like to keep going with this, as I saw so much I wanted to comment on. Unfortunately, this rant has already gone into extra innings. Remember that everything I said was intended only to add to the existing dialogue and not to, in any way, offend.

That being said, let the flames commence.

Reply to
service

Wed, 23 Nov 2005 02:06:18 -0000, Big Mouth Billy Bass

wrote:

snipped-for-privacy@blue.mshome.net>, "Peter Hucker" spake thusly:

You just shot yourself in the foot.

inability to use and understand a

don't give a shit about precision meanings.

--- Well, perhaps you should. Here's one from some of your boys:

The Animals

DON'T LET ME BE MISUNDERSTOOD

(Benjamin/Marcus/Caldwell)

Baby, do you understand me now Sometimes I feel a little mad Well don't you know that no-one alive Can always be an angel When things go wrong I seem to be bad

I'm just a soul who's intentions are good Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood

Baby, sometimes I'm so carefree

With a joy that's hard to hide And sometimes it seems that All I have to do is worry And then you're bound to see my other side

I'm just a soul who's intentions are good Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood

If I seem edgy, I want you to know That I never mean to take it out on you Life has it's problems and I get my share And that's one thing I never mean to do

'cause I love you Oh, oh, oh, baby, don't you know I'm human Have thoughts like any other one Sometimes I find myself alone and regretting Some foolish thing, some little simple thing I've done

I'm just a soul who's intentions are good

Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood

Yes, I'm just a soul who's intentions are good Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood

Yes, I'm just a soul who's intentions are good Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood

Yes, I'm just a soul who's intentions are good Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood

-- John Fields Professional Circuit Designer

Reply to
John Fields

--
While "Ol\' Sparky" makes sure that the the individual is, in fact,
cooked, death probably occurs because of ventricular fibrillation
long before anything even gets warm.
Reply to
John Fields

John, I wouldn't have taken you to be an "Animals" fan...

--
Regards,
  Bob Monsen

God ever arithmetizes.
- Gustav Jacob Jacobi
Reply to
Bob Monsen

--
I thought you didn\'t care for precision in verbal discourse...
Clearly you understood what I meant, so what\'s the bullshit for?
Reply to
John Fields

presumably American slang, not an imprecise word.

--
Well, for starters, since I didn\'t know anything about whether you
had kids or not, you should have known that and ruled it out.
Second, since the lyrics are from an "Animals" song and they\'re
Brits, ("your boys") I thought you might be able to put two and two
together and relate the "Oh Lord, please don\'t let me be
misunderstood."  part to why it\'s important to be precise when
communicating using the written word.  Obviously, I was wrong.
Reply to
John Fields

--- I wasn't, much, but I've always remembered the "Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood." lyric.

My favorites, back then, were Jefferson Airplane, Greatful Dead, Janis, Procol Harum, Quicksilver Messenger Service, Hendrix, Rotary Connection,... and, Beatles and Stones.

And, Country Joe and The Fish, and on and on...

Nothing quite like listening to the Dead in Central Park, free, behind a hit of blotter.

-- John Fields Professional Circuit Designer

Reply to
John Fields

You mean a Brit? I don't have any sons.

And I don't like poetry or believe in god, so [ignores]

--
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com   
http://www.petersphotos.com

H lp! S m b d st l ll th v w ls fr m m k yb rd!
Reply to
Peter Hucker

You've told me enough details to show it is less safe than the UK system in some respects. By the way I discussed it with an electrical engineer, and he told me the US system is terribly unsafe.

I subscribed to the group to ask a question, and noticed a couple of posts to reply to.

Yes.

Agreed, but more of the Americans are egotistical, and to a greater extent.

What I'm doing is asking you why you think I'm having a go at you when I'm not.

What on earth do you do with 48kW???

You have an obsession with staying precisely on topic. I'm sure you've got German blood in you.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com   
http://www.petersphotos.com

                                          _,,,,.
                                      j$I}I}ii}i?c
                                   c??{{{?$?${$?h9c,..
                                 c?}i$$i?$}?h$$?????hi}$h.
Reply to
Peter Hucker

Precision in English conversation is not the same as precision in mathematics, electronics, etc. Why can't you distinguish between the two?

--
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com   
http://www.petersphotos.com

A lawyer is an expert on justice in much the same way your average hooker is an
expert on love.
Reply to
Peter Hucker

Those were simpler times, eh? No haircuts. Sex on tap. We all knew who the enemy was (Nixon), and who not to trust (everybody over 30).

The only bit left from those days is the no haircuts part, and that is only because my hair deserted me long ago...

('m currently listening to a recording of Keith Jarrett's Koln concert from January, 1975... very nice)

--
Regards,
  Bob Monsen

Intuition is the undoubting conception of a pure and attentive mind, which
arises from the light of reason alone, and is more certain than deduction.
- Descartes
Reply to
Bob Monsen

I took a guess. I wasn't sure if that's what you meant. What you used is presumably American slang, not an imprecise word.

What now? Don't tell me you're religious? Please don't fall into the image I have of over-religious Americans....

If you saw the wages we get over here......

--
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com   
http://www.petersphotos.com

A woman sends her clothing out to the Chinese laundry. When it comes back there
are still stains in her panties. The next week she encloses a note to the
Chinaman that says, "Use more soap on panties."
This goes on for several weeks, the woman sending the same note to the laundry.
Finally fed up the Chinaman responded with his own note that said, "Use more
paper on ass."
Reply to
Peter Hucker

presumably American slang, not an imprecise word.

Well I did guess right.

You underestimated my laziness.

I have of over-religious Americans....

Religiously proper is an oxymoron.

?

Yes there is a lot of free stuff. But the taxes to pay for it are horrendous.

I never said our outlets stop us getting shocked.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com   
http://www.petersphotos.com

A baby was born that was so advanced that he could talk.  He looked around the
delivery room and saw the doctor.
"Are you my doctor?" he asked.
"Yes, I am."
The baby said "Thank you for taking such good care of me during birth."
He looked at his mother and asked, "Are you my mother?"
"Yes, I am," she said.
"Thank you for taking such good care of me before I was born" he said.
He then looked at his father and asked "Are you my father?"
"Yes, I am," his father answered.
The baby motioned him close, then poked him on the forehead with his index
finger 5 times, saying "I want you to know that THAT HURTS!"
Reply to
Peter Hucker

some respects. By the way I discussed it with an electrical engineer, and he told me the US system is terribly unsafe.

What do you expect? He's brainwashed, too.

It only looks that way to Euro-wennies with no balls.

Electric heat, central air conditioning, electric water heater, electric stove. Just because you have a 200 amp 240 VAC service doesn't mean that you'll use all of it.

--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

some respects. By the way I discussed it with an electrical engineer, and he told me the US system is terribly unsafe.

Explain to me how having a cord with a lower rating than the fuse protecting it is safe.

You're from Texas aren't you?

Agreed, but it's a little over the top isn't it? We have 80 amps, and even if we have electric heating (which most of us don't as gas is far cheaper) it ain't all used.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com   
http://www.petersphotos.com

A Jewish woman is sitting at a bar. A man approaches her.
"Hi, honey," he says. "Want a little company?"
"Why?" asks the woman. "Do you have one to sell?"
Reply to
Peter Hucker

--
Hardly a guess unless you\'re blind to your own culture.
Reply to
John Fields

It's that or it knocks your heart out of sync, into fibrilation(sp?)

bullshit. actually it's higher.

only if the RMS current is not known, if it is only the resuistance is needed,

for all sensibly constructed wires R will be smaller than Z (which measn te conductor will pass DC better than it passes AC.

For realy long runs they use DC because the losses are less.

--

Bye.
   Jasen
Reply to
Jasen Betts

it is safe.

something behind a TV set, etc) it could get too warm.

--
Depends on the wire size and the length of the cord.  Like the man
said, you need to study up on the wire charts and whatever the
regulations are.  We have the NEC (National Electrical Code) to go
by.  You???
Reply to
John Fields

it is safe.

Peter, you need to study the AWG wire charts and the NEC regulations to get a clue. The fusing current of the smaller wire is still higher than the current rating of the fuse or circuit breaker that supplies it.

You're not even close. Can't you read a sig file? I grew up in Ohio, and live in Florida. I'm a disabled veteran living by myself, and I've never been to Texas.

we have electric heating (which most of us don't as gas is far cheaper) it ain't all used.

You just don't get it, do you? In theory, I could have used

200*240*24*30, or 34560 KWh last month, but I only used a little over 600 KWh which is about average for me. A higher capacity service is installed with heavier wire and fixtures which reduces line losses due to resistance. Do you run the engine in your call at full speed all the time? DO you turn every light in the house on all the time? Use some common sense.
--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

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