TI-Burr-Brown parts shartage?

Yeah, but at least the doc said that back pain episodes will likely become less severe the older I get because the spine grows to be less flexible. That's pretty much the only occasional health issue I have. < knocking on wood >

...

Yeah, but who decides what a "better place" is? A better place for me might not be exactly a better place for Joe Schmo.

And, even ginen that, how would the world get there? We are engineers (or acting engineers) after all, aren't we? Don't we think about the implementation phase of our vast plans? ;-)

Thanks, Rich

But the statists seem unable to grasp the fact that:

A: Individual donation can carry the load, by people who voluntarily give what they can to help out those in need B: Getting the government into the loop, taking your money away, filtering half or more off into their pockets, and giving handouts to people who don't really desrve it

Are two different things, and staying the "B" course has always resulted in disaster, and why should we prove that fact yet again?

Thanks, Rich

Which would only work if you could value benefits and costs in the same units - presumably dollars. The effectiveness of a charity depends not only on the quantity of goods they transfer to the recipients, but also on the timing of the transfers, and the proportion of the appropriate recipients that they reach. Since the costs and benefits can't be expressed in the same units, you can only talk about effectiveness, not efficiency.

I'm not a vociferous critic of the U.S. - which Jim would understand if he wasn't such an ill-educated redneck - and his opinions on other people's ignorance are totally vitiated by his own.

The one defined by world outside the cage in which Jim is confined by his ignorance and prejudice. Jim is a citizen of a gated community in Phoenix, Arizona - I'm a citizen of the world.

Not so much a social security system as pension scheme set up by the rich to look after the rich. In civilised countries, social security schemes are safety nets for everybody.

Are they lying?

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

I'm not boasting, I'm preaching. Most of us have enough income to buy cars and beer and toys. All of us should set aside a bit to help people who are truly suffering from hunger and disease. Medical and food aid alleviates short-term suffering; microlending and education are long-term. Both deserve our support.

Even the most conservative and libertarian among us actually got where we are with a tremendous amount of public and private help.

John

That pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?

That's exactly where charity excels. They see a need very quickly and react pretty much immediately. I could give you tons of examples from here but that could be considered boasting. And on some occasions I couldn't because it breaks confidentiality.

If they talk about countries like the US, possibly. Here, you can easily go to a food closet. Typically run by county organizations and churches. There you can usually get more food than you can possibly consume. How do I know? Our church runs one. Much of that comes from members of the congregation who have large orchards. Then we have the "senior gleaners" who pick fruit at other properties that would otherwise go to waste because the owners aren't interested in it. Let me tell you, that is top notch gourmet stuff. The supermarkets can't even touch that level of quality.

I don't live in a gated community. I live in an ordinary middle-class neighborhood that includes Black and Pakistani and Indian (from New Delhi) next-door neighbors.

Slowman is just jealous... when he was born and fell out of the horse's ass, she kicked him in the head ;-)

Slowman hasn't been gainfully employed for more than a few months at a time... employers quickly note his incompetence.

So he lives in high unemployment areas of the world where he won't stand out and be noticed.

(Our current unemployment numbers came out today... 4.4% ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Yes. Definitely. Those who can't do so financially can always roll up the sleeves and do it. An example is Habitat for Humanity. Heck, you don't even need the skills, they'll teach you. Did a similar thing but organized by our church. A complete re-roof. Besides the happiness that created with the owner one reward was that the contractor who presided over the effort showed me and others how to properly do a composition roof which had been foreign to me. Made me forget all the back pain next day.

And, at least for me, with help from parents who really cared. That seems to be a huge problem these days. Family structures seem actually more intact in not-so-developed countries.

But nobody who is short of money ....

Jim likes his traditional redneck insults, and lacks the wit to modernise them.

As usual, Jim is way out of touch with reality. In fact my employers have always regarded me as unusually competent. Cambridge Instruments did make me redundant after I'd worked there for nine years but that was all about management incompetence, not mine ...

As an electronic engineer with no formal training in electronics and a Ph.D.in Physical Chemistry I do tend to stand out, independent of the level of unemployment - which isn't actually all that high around here at the moment.

The Dutch unemployment rate was 5.5% last year.

and it is lower this year. There is actually a shortage of electronic engineers and it drives me nuts - the employment agencies keep on re- advertising jobs for which I ought to be a excellent candidate, and reject my job applications out of hand, if they bother to respond to them at all. As far as I can see, it is mostly ageism - I'm 64 and Dutch employers don't really believe that anybody over 55 should still be working. The idea that someone might want to work after they have turned 65 just doesn't compute.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

In the immediate community. They tend to do worse when the need is on the wrong side of tracks.

And the point I was making was that you can't describe this in terms of efficiency, but only in terms of effectiveness, which is much harder to quantify.

And examples don't tell us anything about the people who needed help, but didn't get it becasue nobody knew that they neede help ....

Which makes it seasonal - and you aren't talking about a balanced diet. Historically, getting through the winter was the difficult bit.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Well, let's see. Our folks were in Louisiana after the hurricane, then in Russia, then in rural Mexiko, then in Guatemala, then...

Not exactly the immediate community ;-)

I am sure it's quite effective when the team leaves and the locals suddenly have several more houses.

Ok, I agree that that will always be the case. So, would government agencies know better who needs the most help? With all due respect, I doubt that. In the case of a church the communication is nearly instant. Or in this day and age it's really instant (Internet). Goes from one pastor to another, usually. No bureaucracy, no budget approval waits, IOW no red tape. People roll up the sleeves and do it. And yeah, most of the time they pay their own travel expenses. Or the congregation pitches in.

In California there is fresh fruit year round except in the dead of winter. Yeah, it's seasonal but so is our own food here at home. In the winter we distribute food from markets, the same stuff we eat except that we pay for it. What is handed out is more healthy than what the average citizen consumes. But people do have to make an effort in food preparation. There won't be any fast food or TV dinner packages, it's all fresh.

Sometimes we deliver cooked meals, for example if someone is disabled or goes through chemo and just can't hold it together for now.

Jim was claiming that private charity was more efficient than government-based social security, and I was making the point that efficiency isn't an appropriate concept for doing this kind of comparison.

They have a duty to be comprehensive, which no private charity does.

Within your denomination.

But no duty to be comprehensive, and no mechanism for testing that everybody who needs help is getting it.

Fine, as far as it goes.

Sounds good, but it is still going to be within your denomination.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

I wonder how much of his wife's money Bill gives to charity?

Slowman doesn't have a charitable bone in his body. All mouth and no performance.

...Jim Thompson

When I see who falls through the cracks at times I have the occasional doubt about that comprehensiveness.

Absolutely not. Food closet example: We neither ask for that nor urge them to come to Sunday services. All we ask them is "How many family members?" in order to figure how much food they'd need. And we believe what they say in response. And it doesn't matter in what language.

Yep, I've seen how that goes in Europe. A very sick relative was denied increased care by a government agency into which people must pay. She could not even move enough to get herself into bed yet they declined. Rubber stamp goes down, bang, "Denied". So far for being comprehensive.

Absolutamente not. They don't even have to be Christians. We don't ask. Jesus didn't either.

Slowman will never understand that "government competency" or "government efficiency" are oxymorons.

...Jim Thompson

Slowman really believes them when they knock on the door and say, "we're from the government and were here to help you".

Hey Slowman, you know that every one of those government bureaucrats is a paid employee. My bet is that none are in Joerg's church's food shelf.

Nope. No pay. And when delivery is needed there won't be any gas money either. Which is ok.