OT: Taxing shituation

Dare I dream that if he were in office when the housing bubble popped, that the people who made the bad bets would have gone broke, and the economy itself would have recovered in a matter of months, like with the dot-com bubble?

But hindsight is always 20:20 - I've got a copy of "The Butterfly Effect," and I keep rewinding it hoping for a different ending. ;-)

Cheers! Rich

In VT, any local tax increases must be voted on. Amazing, since they vote on the budget after they've signed the unions contracts.

Never heard of the Christian Soliers or the Blue Angels? ;-)

...or little boys, for that matter.

:

te:

ement, if you

give your share

ments are now over

lify is if your

ply didn't pay

=A0I'm not aware of

... but they

ge chunk of the

bstantial cut?

that was the

ent, not a

hen the politicos

ntrol all those

inesses to get

NMENT workers who

union workers

ne (or a

hen why

e problem is

returns are

e economic

must rely on

he government

ismanagement

at allowed the

tually

re.

will suck out

iving longer

or

th excess

does any

k?

then write one

pocket,

bill,

phs up. =A0Start

*TO* the

ng else) and

had the money.

they

e

ur share of that

nts

bank

, but that's

Well, I don't have all the facts, but Wiki says the SS trust fund accounts for all excess payments received just like Bernie Madoff did. I'll have to do some more research to get the hard core stuff, but I'm sure it's all explainable. I'll get back later with more evidence, have to retire now.

I think Doc is sick, he hasn't showed up for 2 weeks now at GW, he may have a back problem.

"The Social Security Trust Fund is the means by which the federal government of the United States accounts for excess paid-in contributions from workers and employers to the Social Security system that are not required to fund current benefit payments to retirees, survivors, and the disabled or to pay administrative expenses.

The trust fund contains the securities that will be redeemed to make benefit payments in the future when contributions derived from payroll taxes and self-employment contributions no longer are sufficient to fully fund then-current benefit payments. (The controversy over its meaningfulness is a topic of the sustainability of the unified Federal budget.)" etc. etc.

-Bill

Sam."

Jesus may have only got 3% with his accountant (Judas) cooking the books.

-Bill

retirement, if you

your share

are now over

is if your

didn't pay

not aware of

but they

chunk of the

substantial cut?

that was the

not a

the politicos

control all those

businesses to get

workers who

union workers

(or a

why

problem is

returns are

economic

must rely on

government

mismanagement

allowed the

eventually

suck out

longer

excess

does any

write one

pocket,

up.  Start

the

else) and

the money.

of that

but that's

But where do they get that money to redeem those "securities"? Taxes? Chinese? Print it? All three? The *fact* is that there is nothing there but an IOU payable to Uncle Sam, from Uncle Sam. ...and you count it as money.

The only difference between Bernie Madoff and Uncle Sam is that Uncle Sam owns the prisons.

It may have been really ugly inbetween, but pretty much. OTOH, it couldn't have been handled more poorly.

The last chance to rewind starts in a month.

Sure but that is on a regular ballot, not at some meeting.

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

ote:

tirement, if you

to give your share

tlements are now over

qualify is if your

simply didn't pay

. =A0I'm not aware of

nus ... but they

large chunk of the

substantial cut?

use that was the

lement, not a

, when the politicos

control all those

businesses to get

VERNMENT workers who

me union workers

stone (or a

, then why

the problem is

he returns are

the economic

ams must rely on

t the government

l mismanagement

that allowed the

ventually

uture.

ay will suck out

t living longer

e for

with excess

hat does any

risk?

r, then write one

t's pocket,

ry bill,

graphs up. =A0Start

ent *TO* the

thing else) and

ll had the money.

re they

the

your share of that

ements

o a bank

in, but that's

g there but

ney.

owns

Who cares where they get it from? If the dollar goes to zero, the rest of the world will be just as broke as we are or worse. If you want out of the system, go buy gold and put it under the mattress with a shotgun to protect it. It would have been a good investment for the last 10 years. Real estate or most any commodities are also good ideas. Buy a ton of toilet paper and you might get rich when the dollar collapses.

-Bill

I already quoted FDR and the Supreme Court as saying Social Security is simply a tax, not insurance, and not set aside ('earmarked') in any way.

You'll notice the Social Security website always puts "insurance" in quotation marks to indicate it's not really insurance--it's not a policy, you don't own it, and they pay whatever benefits they want to each year. You are not guaranteed any particular benefit.

Their FAQ page is full of double-talk and sly evasions:

But under the "judge people by their actions, not their words" principle, here are two gross indicators for you...

Earlier you quoted the Social Security Agency's position

"Far from being 'worthless IOUs,' the investments held by the trust funds are backed by the full faith and credit of the U. S. Government."

That fails to notice that "the full faith and credit" of the U.S. is the taxpayers. That is, they're saying you don't have to worry about them paying back the money, because they have the ability to tax you to pay you back your own money.

Secondly, the entire national debt "gross debt") is $13.4T, and GDP was $14.3T last year, but the CBO reports that our debt has reached just 60% of GDP.

"But," you astutely exclaim, "$13.4T is **93%** of $14.4T."

Correct. Is their calculator broken? No. They don't include the interagency debt as debt, which means they don't count themselves as indebted by the Social Security obligation.

I suspect they're right too--I don't think they're technically bound to repay any of it, and they don't seem to think so either.

-- Cheers, James Arthur

Some people apparently think he would have; as I mentioned in another post, while I personally couldn't really defend it one way or the other, there are plenty of people who are quite confident that Jesus would have supported a public health care plan if He were around today.

That's a nice diagram James; thanks. What's the little chunk at the top of the "Income" stack? Just miscellaneous income the feds take in?

In your opinion, was the way Social Security was advertised to "the people" back when it started already somewhat different than what the designers planned to do with it? (I.e., it was really somewhat broken from the start, and the designers knew it.) Or has it only been in more recent times when it's been subject to all sorts of financial shenanigans?

---Joel

p of

Corporate income tax is the bulk of it ($222B), then various excise ($77B), customs ($23B), gift, and inheritance taxes. (Those figures just cited were projected 2010 numbers, not actual 2009 as used elsewhere, but they're ballpark.)

e"

tart,

hen

I wasn't there and I don't know. Roosevelt explains it in the archives on the SS website, but I only skimmed. It's my understanding that SS was intended for emergency cases only, not as a retirement plan for the general public. You paid in a small amount, then it was there IFF you needed it.

I think they believed in it and were sincere, but never imagined it being expanded the way it has been.

There were some significant adjustments made under Carter. The well ran dry, so they jacked up the tax rate. Since then the fiddling has been constant, like Mr. Obama's recently sending recipients a $250 check in lieu of a cost-of-living increase. (The gov's cost of living index fell, so recipients weren't otherwise going to get an increase.)

-- Cheers, James Arthur

message

Some towns in VT still have a "Town Meeting" type of government.

Sure, the ones who don't believe. ;-)

Not in mine. Read up on the history. It was a fraud from the get-go. Roosevelt like doing business that way.

It was always unconstitutional. I'm sure someone thought it was sustainable. Some forward chain letters, too.

retirement, if you

give your share

entitlements are now over

qualify is if your

didn't pay

 I'm not aware of

... but they

large chunk of the

substantial cut?

that was the

suplement, not a

the politicos

control all those

businesses to get

GOVERNMENT workers who

union workers

stone (or a

then why

problem is

returns are

economic

must rely on

the government

mismanagement

allowed the

eventually

future.

will suck out

living longer

with excess

does any

then write one

pocket,

bill,

up.  Start

*TO* the

anything else) and

had the money.

they

share of that

statements

bank

but that's

Because it is important to the survival of the country, that's why. Pyramid schemes *always* fall.

Don't count on it. They see that train coming and are disengaging from the dollar as fast as they can. Even if you're right, you think the entire world starving is a good thing?

Silly. I still am forced to buy your beloved "insurance". ...and you can't eat gold.

Nice cherry picking. Now look at 30 years. I'd be broke at that rate.

Yes, but I can cherry pick that data so it's not so good, too. I'm still forced to buy into the government's insurance.

Can't eat that, either.

message

on

Even so, some issues have to be on a ballot by state law.

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

message

on

Nope. Not all states's constitutions are the same. Vermont has the "Town Meeting" type of government pretty much as the default (towns can choose otherwise - cities may not have a choice). It's pretty much a direct democracy on the local level.

Well, technically, you could, but it would really only make you fart a lot.

Cheers! Rich