Not so fast there. Have you looked to see what the majority want lately?
Here's one example (feel free to quote your own)
"Nearly three-quarters of Americans say the number of casualties in Iraq is unacceptable, while two-thirds say the U.S. military there is bogged down and nearly six in 10 say the war was not worth fighting"
from
[snip]
Boohoo ;-)
You're in perfect form, Fred!
But you're wasting your time with these Pollyanna's... they're perfectly clueless.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Gag! What a newspaper to cite! There's other places in the US besides the fruit coasts.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Fred wrote: "Are some innocent people going to get caught in the net? Heck yeah-well just throw them back in the pond and keep fishing.."
And how do you propose to determine which of your detainees to "throw back" without examining each case in an open forum?
Knock it off with the name-calling, Fred. You wouldn't do it to my face so don't do it here. Argue your point respectfully and I'll do the same on this end.
Regards, Mike
is
0296.htmlFaced with uncomfortable facts, you resort to an ad hominem (or perhaps in this case, ad scriptorum (perhaps, I couldn't find a direct translation to Latin for "newspaper") attack, for which you lose points in formal forensics.
As I said, feel free to quote your own sources.
FWIW, Once upon a time that paper's polls gave W 80% approval ratings.
conventional
actually
right,at
Certainly. Iraq under Sadam had a history of making and using chemical weapons in war and in domestic disturbances. Iraq still had at the time of the invasion the technical capability to make nerve and mustard gases more or less at will.
Evidence was found after the first Gulf War that Iraq had a nuclear weapon development program (there is no other practical use for the Calutrons found there) and a history of resisting the instpectors, destroying documents, hiding equipment, intimidation, etc.
The world is better off without without Sadam in power.
I have been surprised that no large stocks of WMD have been found.
I am dismayed that the US governemnt uses the opportunity of the disturbance to abandon a long tradition of rule by international law and behavior in accordance with principles of human rights.
Do you really think that? Do you have a plan for stabalizing Iraq?
Do you really think the world is safer now, in any way at all, than it was when Saddam was holding together Iraq, and the international community was watching him closely enough to prevent him from theatening his neighbours?
It wasn't good then, no. But now it is not only much more of a mess, it's our mess.
You would do better if you stay off the drugs. The issue is one of facilitating the capture and detention of real terrorists while staying within the authority of the legal system. This has nothing to do with the middle ages, religion, morality, or any of that other crap you cite. You and some others around here need to get a clue, and that is you are hopelessly unqualified to think for yourself about these matters. This country is going to be run the way the majority of its citizens want it to be run, and they communicated their preferences at the last election. Are some innocent people going to get caught in the net? Heck yeah- well just throw them back in the pond and keep fishing, it's an imperfect world- boohoo.
The USA did the above of its own volition.
No-one forced the USA to do it.
Graham
You think Iraq was a credible threat ?
I'm amazed this idea is still doing the rounds.
Graham
Those taken into custody in Afghanistan weren't terrorists.
Graham
Actually, they made their own.
Ignorance in the age of google is unforgivable. Here's one google link from "Iraq nerve gas production" - there are about 746,000
results.http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/program.htm
Making nerve and mustard gases are not difficult. It caa be done in a college chemistry lab, an oil refinery, a pharmaceutical plant, etc. starting from mundane things like flame retardents. The real trick is isolating the products and byproducts so you don't kill the chemists.
Good Morning, Fred,
What you recommend is morally reprehensible, illegal and thoughly un-American.
Following the battle of Trenton in 1776, Gen. Geo. Washington issued order for the treatment of his Hessian (foreign mercenary) prisoners. Quoting from an essay by Scott Horton:
"Treat them with humanity," Washington directed....He forbade physical abuse and directed the detainees be quartered with the German-speaking residents of Eastern Pennsylvania, in the expectation that they would become "so fraught with a love of liberty, and property too, that they may create a disgust to the service among the rest of the foreign troops, and widen the breach which is already opened between them and the British." (Things unfolded exactly as Washington envisioned). Washington also set the rule that detainees be given the same housing, food and medical treatment as his own soldiers. And he was particularly concerned about freedom of conscience and respect for the religious values of those taken prisoner. "While we are contending for our own liberty, we should be very cautious of violating the rights of conscience in others, ever considering that God alone is the judge of hearts of men, and to Him only in this case are they answerable."
Fast-forward now to Lincoln's, 1863, Regulations for Armies in the Field:
"Art. 16. Military necessity does not admit of cruelty - that is, the infliction of suffering for the sake of suffering or for revenge, nor of maiming or wounding except in fight, nor of torture to extort confessions. It does not admit of the use of poison in any way, nor of the wanton devastation of a district. It admits of deception, but disclaims acts of perfidy; and, in general, military necessity does not include any act of hostility which makes the return to peace unnecessarily difficult."
Quoting now from a letter dated Oct. 3, 2005, and signed by some thirty retired American Generals and Admirals in support of Sen. McCain's amendments to the recent Defense Department Authorization:
"The abuse of prisoners hurts America's cause in the war on terror, endangers U.S. service members who might be captured by the enemy, and is anathema to the values Americans have held dear for generations."
Fred wrote: "Right or wrong, this is something that has to be done, and the people running this operation require a free rein unhampered by humanitarian and judicial interference."
But that statement might have come from a preface to a 1940's German SS interrogation manual; or perhaps a French directive for the treatment of Algerian detainees in the mid-50's(!?)
At the age of 18, my mother-in-law helped bury the body of her fiance. He'd been rounded up by the Germans (retreating through Northern Italy), and along with several of his friends he'd been dragged several Km behind a truck. She swears he had nothing to do with the Partisans. And yet his guilt or innocence in taking part in an insurgency really is neither here nor there. Or would you disagree, Fred?
"We can say that we have fulfilled the most difficult duty out of love for our people...You have to know what it is like to see one hundred bodies side by side, or even five hundred or one thousand. To have kept control and at the same time...to have remained decent, that is what has hardened us. This is a glorious page of our history." Heinrich Himmler, speaking on October 4, 1942
Regards, Mike
They got their chemical weapons off the west, for use against Iran. You've forgotten that Saddam was once the USA's protege in the area.
Paul Burke
I'll take a nice refrigerator magnet.
--
Thanks,
- Win
I don't know what they use- probably drugs, polygraphs, and other scientific means- and maybe old fashioned beatings, but "open forums" are out. These people are not "cases," they are potential sources of intelligence, captives, and possibly terrorists. Right or wrong, this is something that has to be done, and the people running this operation require a free rein unhampered by humanitarian and judicial interference.
Dang, you've voided the warranty on all of them.
John
Next time we'll release them in the Netherlands ;-)
...Jim Thompson
-- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | |
OK. We designed it so you can cut off the Highland part on the bottom and use the message as your own.
John
I need one of those!
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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