OT: End-of-year inventory changing?

"donating" trash to suckers is cheaper than hiring a legit electronics recycler.

Exactly. To really do some good in the world, donate cash.

Our FY ends last day of March, so that's when we donate.

We can haul e-waste to the dump on Tunnel Road, in an unmarked car; they take it free.

It depends. Do what will work best, or what you have most of. Cash is not always what's needed most.

Cash can, "in theory", always be converted into "what's needed most". But, that is often a very inefficient process.

The normal "Product" (Cause/Mission) and "Consumer" (Donor/Benefactor) rules are perverse in the non-profit sector. And, unless you are a really motivated consumer (donor), you are likely going to be unable to understand how effectively your git is being used.

In the normal Market, you sell tent peg grease and consumers DIRECTLY evaluate the quality of that grease and its cost, in comparison to other tent peg grease vendors. They make their purchase decisions based on those two very visible criteria.

If I'm selling "aid for the homeless", you can superficially convince yourself that this is a worthwhile purchase -- without ever digging into HOW that need is being addressed by my efforts (which are consequential to your gift/purchase).

Right off the bat, you can claim ~15% as "administrative overhead" -- without raising any flags to folks who frequent this market (i.e., donors).

One can hire dozens of "counselors" to provide advice to the homeless clients on how to find and keep housing, how to get a better paying job, how to cut unnecessary expenses to be able to afford that housing, etc. The costs of their salaries are direct "program expenses" -- not "overhead"! Just like the cost of the ingredients and labor in that tent peg grease are directly attributable to it as a product/cost center.

Or, one can convert (cash) donations into rental payments and house those folks. You've addressed their immediate need for housing -- and can boast that *you* have provided housing to N clients to encourage more donations (to pay for next month's rent!)

Or, one can erect housing and act as landlord to those clients.

Each is a viable, defensible way to serve the homeless community. But, each has different long-term effects and consequences. Do you know if the $10K you donated is being funneled into a "preferred" landlord's pocket (possibly a close friend??) vs. attempting to address the cause of homelessness? I.e., how likely will ANOTHER $10K be needed? Soon??

The issue changes when you're dealing with grants -- where folks who are skilled in understanding how to look at your actions and reporting will evaluate your proposals and past performance in deciding whether or not to award you a particular grant!

A popular group, here, applied for a $2M grant a few years back. Their thinking was that they could use the money to purchase a building -- FOR THEIR OFFICES (!). The grant provider looked closely at their past activities (how monies were spent, how effective they were in meeting their mission statement) and decided they were a poor choice for the grant award: "Our money is better spent, elsewhere".

Individuals rarely look closely at an organization. They

*may* go for a tour of the facility. And, after an hour of "fawning", opt to make a donation.

And, they'll likely get a *hand-written* Thank You note, in return (written by a VOLUNTEER!).

Neighbor works for a group that, bottom line, takes donated cash and distributes it to "the needy". Modest amounts per client -- maybe ~$3K/year.

With 1000 clients, you can dole out $3M annually.

And, of course, you need to have staff (and facilities) to do that so those costs get added to the $3M. Then, you can take 15% above this for "administration". It's a great racket -- each "needy person" that you add to your client list lets you justify more "program expenses" AND overhead!

And, makes your "need" (as conveyed to potential donors) appear all that much more severe!

"Urgent request for donations" (cuz we don't want to have to LAY OFF staff or downsize to more modest offices!).

By contrast, when your mission is to "recycle" (as in refurbish, reuse, repurpose) kit, a donor can see that their donation actually goes to someone. It doesn't pay staff, rent, utilities, etc. You tap others for the (free) use of warehouse space. Or, to donate a forklift for your use. Or, *labor* to perform those activities. Or, ...

In that way, your "cash" expenses are limited to a CEO and a receptionist (plus utilities).

We are keen to let donors know what we *want* (and DON'T want) in terms of donations. No, we don't want that photocopier; we can't do anything with it other than devote resources to tearing it down and recycling the component parts. No, we don't want that 85" *broken* TV -- for the same reason!

For certain donors, we'll look the other way and accept/process some of these items -- but, that comes at a cost to us. E.g., the doctor who donated the contents of several exam rooms from his practice: we had to find a clinic that could make use of those items and arrange to transport them to the clinic.

I built this some years ago:

It inventories, "sanitizes", qualifies (performance as well as defect detection) and initializes up to sixty 3.5" disks simultaneously.

The top five units are disk shelfs -- 12 slots per shelf. The bottom two are processors to run the code and maintain the database. (I later added a rackmount UPS to keep the thing running during outages so we didn't have to checkpoint progress as often in the RDBMS)

When potential donors come through, they'll invariably see a volunteer feeding disk drives to this beast non-stop (it takes about 2 minutes to prep a drive for insertion and then two more minutes to remove some

*other* drive that has already been processed -- at which time ANOTHER drive must be fed to the beast, etc.)

This inevitably leads to a discussion of what the volunteer is doing which leads to WHY it is being done.

Which leads to a subtle pitch for the challenges of wiping a drive *in* a generic PC (due to likely HPA and DCO).

And, the many different strategies for overwriting the data -- once the entire medium is "exposed". And, how you handle areas that are no longer accessible to the drive (e.g., grown defects). And...

When the donor realizes the effort that you are going to in order to protect any residual information that might be on HIS future donation... and, how you've done this without spending any *monies* on a device to perform those actions... they tend to look favorably on sending their donated kit to you, instead of some other group that CLAIMS they'll protect their data!

[I know of semi-commercial groups that just reinstall an OS and expect the "formatting" to clean the drive of all vestiges of previous data... <rolls eyes>]

One donor had been pulling the drives from all of their donated machines and drilling holes through the platters. "Gee, thanks! We really WANT to process your TRASH (disks) for you!" We invited them in to see how we normally handle drives (see above) and suddenly started getting machines with the INTACT drives still inside!

Win, win! We get drives that we can use in the refurbished machines; they don't have to waste time/effort pulling drives and drilling holes through them!

I've now built five of these systems for different organizations around the country (refurbishing disks is obviously a common activity!!)

Refurbishing disks? Your bullshit stories just never end, do they? I love the casual wanker terms you toss in your story too. Real adorable. I got one for your checkpoints on the RDBMS- GTFOH.

This clown hasn't been relevant in decades at best. How are the clocks on your windows 98 machines working these days?

that is absolutely wrong.

yes, that's a problem when the above is correct. And too often it's hopelessly inefficient.

sometimes. Too often people really don't understand what they're buying.

so that's how drugs are paid for :) I'm sure that works in some cases, but doling out money is an area to be wary of.

I donate goods in the knowledge that nearly all of it gets sold to pay running costs.

not normally. The public image of charity is usually not the reality in that respect.

now there's optimism

Whether an org streamlines its processes can make a major difference to what donations can achieve. Too many just don't.

Bottom line is 3rd sector orgs vary very widely, in more ways than the above. Know your org before getting too involved.

You can always buy peoples' time. The price may not be something you are eager to pay, though.

I have a dentist friend who shuts down his practice for several months each year to go "fix teeth" in underserved areas around the world. Finding (hiring!) another person with his qualifications to perform that task might be difficult (as many of the places he visits aren't "tourist centers" by any stretch of the imagination!

Similarly, much of the work that I "contribute" would be costly to hire out. Not just for the wages involved but, also, for the expertise; I've witnessed how a particular firm operates and can tailor solutions to their "way of doing things". Hiring someone with my *technical* qualifications would likely result in a ghastly mismatch of solution to capabilities.

By way of example, a local group hired a "consultant" to devise a way of tracking their clients and the services that they'd provided to each. $30K later, he gave them a big/wide spreadsheet. True, it allowed them to *see* anything that they wanted (just scroll left/right/up/down until you find the columns and rows that you're after).

But, it required them to hire someone to do data entry to keep the data up to date (which, of course, it never is!). Had the consultant, instead, watched their *process* over the course of several months, he would have seen places where the data could have been extracted from their normal information flow and captured -- into a *database*, not a silly spreadsheet!

Of course, the spreadsheet eventually reaches its capacity and then some sort of pruning needs to be done. Which means historical data falls off the back: "Have we ever paid for dental care for Bob Smith?" <shrug>

And, the spreadsheet tries to capture data after-the-fact. There's no way to see what services are currently being requested (but not yet provided). <frown>

Cash, however, is "portable"; you can wire money to the other side of the globe where <whatever> can be purchased, even if you have <whatever> on-hand, "locally". (one of the local groups does disaster relief work; much easier to wire money to someone located near Banda Aceh than to try to ship supplies to them from the other side of the world!

Any inefficiency (having to buy something that you already have!) is offset by the ease and speed that monies can be moved vs. goods.

Exactly.

"Charities" always have a worthwhile-sounding mission statement:

- we help the homeless

- we help the underprivileged

- we help keep kids in school

- we...

Individuals often "fall" for a good sales pitch -- and the salesman may not even be part of the charity in question! (e.g., someone who's already drank the Kool-Aid without looking under the hood)

You figured that out already, eh? :>

And, how many staff -- and how big of an office building -- do you need to "write checks"? Aren't you just the equivalent of a payroll department?!

The same sort of argument applies to giving cash to groups. You have no control over how it is spent. Even if you "put strings" on those expenditures (who's going to enforce it?)

I witnessed a group dispatch 3 people to get a birds' eye view of one of the Haitian "disasters" -- to the tune of $50K for air fares plus the helicopter rental while on/over the island.

Aside from taking photographs (which anyone already there could have done), how was their physical presence going to make any difference to the relief effort that *they* were going to mount? They could have wired an extra $50K to someone on the island EXPECTING him to abscond with it and still come out ahead!

[Sure, when the Board saw $50K for "travel expenses", a few eyebrows were raised and questions asked. But, often Boards are chosen based on their ability to bring in donations, not actually oversee or guide The Mission!]

For us, its better than that; the goods are the "product" of the organization. You hit up rich donors for "operating expenses".

We've been very fortunate in that regard. Warehouse space, fork lifts, pallet jacks, pallet-wrap, etc. One guy donated

10,000 sq ft of asphalt pavement to convert the dirt approach to a paved surface.

When your clients are local, donors tend to have deeper pockets because they see the effort locally instead of across the world. One friend took a job at one of the large, national groups and observed that it is considerably harder to glad-hand for donations -- folks know that most of the money will leave the community AND they assume other chapters across the country can tap donors in those places even if they don't give, locally.

There are a couple of problems with depending on "generosity", though.

First, you are at the mercy of those donors. If, after several years of allowing you free access (utilities included!) to

10,000 sq ft of warehouse space the owner finds a "paying client", you can find yourself looking to relocate your operation with just 30 days notice! (because the new occupant is eager to get settled in!) <frown>

Second, you can't take those donors for granted! (this seems obvious but I am amazed at how often the gift is underappreciated!) One group was asked to vacate a donated space because they "disrespected" it -- didn't respect the owner's concerns over how the space was used, maintained, etc. "Bye bye!"

Again, I'm just citing our experience. :> (actually, we had another paid staff member who was hired to drive the truck and act as a general "grunt")

If you look for people who believe in your Mission -- and cultivate those people -- you can get lots of "free labor". I've been donating 500hrs, annually, for the past 25 years. I can afford the time and enjoy "making a difference". I'd not get anywhere near the same level of satisfaction writing a check for $50K!

[It also gives me opportunities to meet different people with varied needs, learn new skills, etc. E.g., I'd never have been certified to drive a forklift without actually NEEDING to drive one!]

Exactly. But, that can be from lack of know-how (e.g., the folks who are stuck maintaining a giant spreadsheet cuz "that's what the PAID expert gave them") as well as lack of desire ("we can always ask for more donations!")

[I am surprised at how pervasive that latter attitude is!]

Know-how goes beyond technical issues. You have to understand how your organization is solving problems and be willing to criticize your own process: "Is this the BEST way to do this? Or, is it just a side-effect of how we *happened* to do it, initially (that should have been reevaluated years ago!)?"

We rely on lots of labor donations -- recycling is a labor-intensive process. So, we reach out to local schools to see if we can cajole a teacher to bring "his class" in for 4 hours on a Saturday -- and have them disassemble equipment that is destined to be scrapped. They may only come once in a year's time -- but, that's 100 hours that we wouldn't have had, otherwise! Hopefully, some OTHER teacher at the same school will be motivated to do so NEXT week!

We have lots of disabled and developmentally challenged individuals that use us as a sort of "vocational education" experience; we give them something to keep them busy/focused and we get some free labor in the process. Often, they are accompanied by a "social worker" so we only have to instruct that person on our needs. In some cases, we have to deal directly with the individuals (one high-functioning autistic "kid" is a frequent visitor; he's ALWAYS looking for "guidance" -- from those of us with our own specific goals to meet!)

We also (unfortunately, in my mind!) accept folks of all ages who have to fulfill some number of court-ordered "community service" hours (else go to jail). Too often, these people resent having to provide those hours ("Hey, we'd be just as happy if YOU were sitting in a jail cell... no skin off OUR back!") so they aren't very good workers ("How LITTLE can I do and still get credit for the time I'm putting in, here?")

So, you have to take that into consideration when designing solutions. E.g., I can't expect someone to make a written record of a disk's serial number in a log book. So, I have to acquire that information from the disk, itself. Or, the time they started processing it. Or, any "events" that came up during that.

I can't rely on the operator to fill slots in a particular order. So, I have to "notice" when a new disk has been inserted and automatically start the process once that's happened.

And, I can't rely on them to select the proper sequence of overwrites and verifies to satisfy the requirements of the donor who supplied the drives. So, I have to enforce that automatically (with a REQUIRED barcoded tag associated with each box of drives so I can automatically look-up the requirements of the donor specified for *those* drives).

And, I can't rely on the "operator" NOT to prematurely remove a drive before the process is complete -- even if an innocent error! So, I have to checkpoint the entire process in order to avoid having to redo EVERYTHING from scratch (it takes *hours* to do a single pass over a 1TB disk drive; if the first two passes have been done, I don't want to have to repeat them just because there is no record of the ENTIRE process being complete!)

And, if they realize they screwed up by prematurely removing a drive, I can't know that they'll put it back where it was, previously.

Or, accidentally power down an entire shelf -- interrupting the processing of those 12 drives. Or, the entire machine! Or, the RDBMS!

Or, realize that a particular drive is performing too poorly for us to make use of it in a refurbished machine (low throughput, too many retries, too many bad sectors, etc.) and abort the process so we don't waste time on a drive that we're just going to run through the Formax!

And, I can't rely on them to prepare a pretty-printed report that can be delivered to the donor indicating how each of the drives he donated were processed ("These drives were successfully cleaned, per your specified requirements. These other drives failed the process -- see detail -- and were disposed of per your requirements. And this group of drives weren't appropriate for OUR needs and have been disposed of as your requirements indicated. Thank you for your donation!")

[We can also note who our "big donors" are and make special acknowlegement of them at year end -- accompanied by a summary of ALL of their donations, throughout the year ("*THIS* is how much we appreciate your partnership!").]

And, from my *personal* point of view, it means *I* don't ever have to waste my time erasing disk drives! Someone else can take over that activity, successfully (and, if they screw up, we have a record of their mistakes!)

Yes. Big/national groups tend to have more inertia. Once they get a good process in place, it can persist regardless of (inevitable) staff changes, over time.

Local groups can be more responsive. But, can also vary greatly in *short* time intervals as their "staffs" *are* their "process". As individuals come and go, there's very little to keep things on track (At some groups, I've watched several "CEO cycles" along with scores of volunteers -- many died, moved away, became too infirm to continue their efforts, etc. It's odd being the "old timer" :< )

You'll only know what your giving *to* if you spend some time "looking under the hood". If you don't care -- and just want to "name drop" at social gatherings (and hope like hell that you don't run into someone who actually KNOWS about the organization you're touting) -- then giving is usually better than NOT giving.

But, often not considerably moreso!

My answer that it isn't true was inadequate, and as always it varies. Of the 3 3rd sector orgs I've been involved in:

1. requires people with a particularly high skill level to be effective. These people are hard to get & keep. They require everything, but aren't interested in money at all. They are marish to manage, but wickedly effective when good. It is simply not possible to get them by paying.

Yes one can hire people for this role, and some orgs do, but those people are always inadequately skilled and produce very poor results, with at best a low success rate. And no, they are normally not able to learn what they don't know.

1. involves fostering. Yes one could bring more good fosters in by paying, but that also attracts the wrong people that need to be excluded. Fostering is difficult in that there is plenty of potential risk and ultimately very limited solution to it, ultimately you have to trust them.
2. While people could be hired, their output is just not good enough. Several organisations do take this approach, but it has less than 1 part per million success. That's of some use, but not a success level we wanted to replicate.

Did that once with goods rather than cash. Control over how it's used is easy. We specified our requirements, most said ok, and most, though they used the goods for the right purposes, did not meet a key requirement, so did not get further donations. It's not difficult, merely a question of whetther the donor follows it through or not.

It goes beyond knowhow, too often people don't have the skills to even be interested in improving their process.

I attended someone else's event long ago where that was tried. It was a big fail. The ESNs were far too ESN to be able to move things from point A to B, which was their task. Comically so. Back then there was 1 social worker for the whole group.

[trimming while hoping to preserve the essence...]

I agree completely. You need people to "believe" in the Mission Statement and "buy into it" at a personal level. They offer their time because they

*want* the organization to succeed at it.

Thankfully (from my observations), the folks that are typically *paid* aren't really important to the organization -- e.g., the CEO is likely just a "functional role" and not necessary for the fulfillment of those goals.

[Having said that, the WRONG CEO can "interfere" with the motivations of those people who ARE required to make it work. Piss them off, enough, and they leave -- there are countless other organizations around that will gladly accept their offers (though with likely different Missions)]

I worked with a woman who had very specific ideas of what she wanted from the organization -- the subpopulation that she wanted to serve. The previous CEO accommodated her by allocating resources to meet her needs. *New* CEO decided those needs weren't "worthy" of those resource. So, a volunteer who'd been spending 30+ hours weekly with the organization just walked away. In *her* mind, she wasn't leaving anything behind -- it was already gone!

If hired, they are typically "in it" for the paycheck. If you look at the length of time they've held previous positions, you can see they're not in it for the long haul -- just until they can find something else/better.

Another way that charities differ from businesses is that you have less choice over the folks who are "applying". In general, one wants to accept EVERY offer (of time, labor, equipment, money, etc.). Saying "no" -- for whatever reason -- is a "loss".

Hence, my objection to the use of "community service" volunteers (how can you call them volunteers if they are being compensated for their time -- i.e., kept out of jail for their offense?) falls on deaf ears. Any "body" is better than NO body! <frown>

One long term volunteer made a blatant "pass" at an elderly volunteer ("keep your hands to yourself!"). Something you'd not tolerate in ANY workplace. Bye bye!

A community service "volunteer" was caught shooting up in one of the bathrooms. Again, bye bye!

None of these behaviors are consistent with having young children (e.g., students) present.

You also have to consider legal consequences. I've often encountered bottles of morphine sulfate buried in donations (someone cleaning out the home of a recently deceased relative, etc.). Gee, we don't want people to even SUSPECT that those sorts of things can be hiding among the other items!

This is the inefficiency argument. Yes, agreed. But, it's just like hiring employees at a business; you can easily miss the mark.

Again the "some body is better than NO body" idea. Folks "hope" the person will grow into his/her responsibilities. (just like a bad business hire). The difference is that a business won't hesitate to cut ties to dead wood; non-profits often can't afford to go through the search/hiring process again -- there's not enough bodies to do what NEEDS to be done.

I often work with an older gentleman. Neither of us have time to sit around by the watercooler (what whatercooler???!) so our personal exchanges are brief and "in passing". But, we each know how certain actions are difficult to perform solo. And, "notice" when the other happens to be engaging in one of those activities and silently walks over to lend a hand.

For example, often you're trying to haul an unbalanced load off to the dumpster. Driving on a dirt surface means the load often wobbles from the unevenness of the driving surface. So, you have to inch along -- taking way longer than you'd like just to dispose of the load.

If I see him moving such a load, I will walk up alongside the forks and steady the load with my arms/body. Strictly speaking, this is a risky practice as the load can shift and fall on me (all forklift injuries are "crush" injuries!). But, I know of his abilities behind the wheel. And he knows of my personal vigilence when acting in this role. So, the load gets where it needs to be quickly and uneventfully.

Had someone else attempted to do this, he would have "shooed" them away: "It's too dangerous for you to be standing there!"

Likewise, I may have to climb on the forks and take a ride

*up* as he lifts the load above the top edge of the rolloff. Then, *push* the load off the forks into the rolloff -- all while making sure I don't fall off the fork and take a similar tumble.

Another gentleman (paid help) who is responsible for fetching donations (commercial truck) is always happy to see me show up with the forklift to "catch" the loads as he pulls them to the rear of the truck on a pallet jack; otherwise, he'd have to position the load, hop off the truck, start the forklift, pick up the load, transfer it to a holding area, shut down the forklift, climb back into the truck, drag the next pallet to the rear of the truck with the pallet jack, etc.

He appreciates the fact that I am aware of his workload and willing to drop what *I* am doing to facilitate his activity.

In each case, you understand their plight because you've first-hand experience (try unloading a truck by yourself because the paid staff is off, sick!).

Yes, but you have no control over that.

Cash is easier to "fudge". "Oh, I didn't use *your* money for that frivolous purchase! I used someone else's!" (really? and you expect me to consider that frivolous use as acceptable because it "wasn't" my donation??)

Is that any different at businesses? Presumably, Market Forces will reward/penalize the business. Charities just ask for more donations!

The CEO at one of the groups I work with had absolutely no idea how donated items were processed. Nor any interest in learning! The only concern was whether there were *enough* coming in.

[The first goal of every charity is to pay their own salaries]

At one firm, there were no fewer than *12* full size refrigerators running, 24/7/365, on the premises. Each with -- at most -- one "lunch" prominently sitting inside. Really? Do you have two broken legs that keep you from walking to ONE, shared refrigerator?

"Is there any reason we have to have all these lights on?"

"Why is there a fan running in that room without a body to cool?"

"Why is there one computer for each monitor being burned in? Can't we use a video splitter? Do you really care what the displayed image happens to be???"

($3K/month electric bill -- think of what you could do with $36K/year!)

If you don't know its happening, you can't do anything to FIX it! (and, if you don't CARE -- because you can always beg for more donations -- then how will it ever change?)

We use them to disassemble equipment that is being recycled. So, they really only need to be able to sit upright and use common hand tools. There's a gentleman at one of the groups who doesn't have the use of his legs. He manages to transfer himself into a regular chair (from his motorized scooter) where he stays for the duration of his visit. When he is done working on <whatever>, someone will usually notice and offer to take it off his workbench and place the next item there, for him. By

*noticing*, it saves him from having to *ask* for help -- lets him keep a bit more personal dignity.

And, makes him feel like those folks around him (not just "staff") are appreciative of his efforts/time.

Bottom line, charities are very different from "businesses". And, you can't assume to know what goes on under-the-hood... without spending a fair bit of time ACTIVELY OBSERVING. (how do the bathrooms get cleaned? how does the toilet paper get replenished? who replaces burnt light bulbs? who keeps the truck running? forklift? HVAC plant? do you see a "maintenance man" or "janitor" on the org chart???)

I'm so shocked you are on the prowl for dead folk's drugs.

That's one weird clown show operation there with some world class safety. Well, I guess when your help is a bunch of old junkies that's as good as it gets.

You're such a martyr.

Sure. In that one the paid people do too, unlike in most areas. The issue was more that they couldn't do the job much. Some tasks really do require an unusually high level of skill, and without that you just seldom get results.

that happens a huge amount in 3rd sector and for-profit business. One thing I learnt is that management's task is less to motivate people, more to not alienate them.

Good 3rd sector managers take time to find out what corner people want to serve in and feed that. I've left volunteer positions because I couldn't care less about what I was being asked to do, and wasn't asked to do where I could solve something useful the others couldn't.

Yes, typically. Not in this case. The hires normally want to make a career of it, but don't have what it takes.

I bet that's a big problem in some types of org.

Probably every org gets illegal donations. You need a policy. Of course potential volunteers being attracted by that situation is an added headache.

In this case the problem isn't inefficiency, their work simply isn't good enough and never will be. It's like hiring a 6 year old to paint your house, it's justnot going to work out.

OTOH the org might get rid of you on the grounds that the liability/risk you pose exceeds your labour value.

We had full control. We were the donor.

that's how it's different, charities that ought to close & be replaced with competent ones often don't.

replace those PCs with tv boxes and wipe out over 90% of leccy use

The groups with which I've been affiliated tend to steer the "right" people to the right *types* of jobs. E.g., we have a group of registered nurses who process/handle all of the medical equipment, supplies, medications, etc. Non-medical-professionals aren't allowed in those rooms as a matter of policy (what business do you THINK you might have, in there?)

Likewise, folks who don't know how to service electronic devices aren't allowed to tinker with electronic devices.

And, you're not going to go poking around under the hood of the truck or forklift without some previous assessment of your abilities, there.

And, you surely won't drive *either* without a Commercial Driver's License (for the truck) or "current" certification (for the forklift).

There are gray areas where there is some blurring of boundaries, of necessity. E.g., all donations have to be "triaged" -- what's

*in* the donation, how much of it should be kept, where should it be routed (medical, electronics, school supplies, etc.) and should anyone else have a peek at it before making that final decision.

This is a job that very few of us are qualified to perform -- mainly because we've been around long enough to be familiar with the various types of items that arrive as donations. And, have enough "common sense" to be able to make an intelligent decision regarding things we've never previously encountered. There's a high degree of trust involved as you're seeing things before anyone else is even aware of their existence.

E.g., we received a donation of *used* suture kits. Large boxes (here, they are called "dishpak" as the walls are double thickness of cardboard and ~18x18x36" -- suitable for packing kitchenwares) full of tiny scissors. Lots of very sharp, exposed blades just waiting for some idiot to put their hand(s) in and get knicked.

Have these been sterilized before being donated? Or, are they biohazards? Do we want some bozo who's not got the foresight to think about these issues to make the decision as to their disposition? Or, reach in and pick one out out of curiosity??

In a non-profit, management should stick to fund raising and keep their hands out of "operations". The volunteers know what needs to be done, just let them *do* it! Listen to them if they indicate a pending "need" (e.g., "We're almost out of shrink-wrap film") and work to *enable* their activities.

No one "schedules" our time. Yet, magically, we manage to have someone on-hand all the time. Because we kabitz and share our schedules knowing that there's always a need for an extra body/hands. Management *might* be able to tell you when paid staff won't be on hand. But, chances are, they won't know WHO will be present to cover those responsibilities!

[And, if I can't make it in when folks had assumed I'd "cover", *I* will be responsible enough to notify someone to cover for *me* so the organization isn't penalized by my absence]

Exactly. In my case, I have a variety of skills that I *can* offer but may choose to only exercise certain ones. E.g., 10-15 years ago, when LCD monitors were just finding widespread acceptance, we'd receive frequent donations of *defective* monitors -- usually bad caps or blown FETs. I'd take 15-20 of them home, each week, and repair them for distribution in lieu of CRTs. I'd cover the cost of the replacement parts and the time to make the repair. So, when I next visit the facility, I could exchange them for another 15-20 monitors.

This gets old. Fast. And SWMBO gets annoyed with all that kit coming into the house each week. So, I eventually stopped providing that service and found someone who would do it on the premises, instead (though that required the organization to supply him with replacement parts -- an expense that they didn't have when I was doing it)

I refurbished electric wheelchairs for a while (nasty job as folks tend to LIVE in their chairs -- and inevitably have "bathroom issues"!).

Then, found I could make a bigger impact designing systems to allow them to downgrade the type of volunteer needed to RELIABLY perform certain actions (e.g., wiping disks/certifying their erasure, testing PC hardware, cataloging donated equipment, etc.). This has the added benefit of letting me contribute much of my time from the comfort of my own home (why should I have to sit in a warehouse writing code or assembling test fixtures?).

[I built my first AI in one such application -- a "Production System" that advised the "user" (volunteer) on how he should handle each piece of kit presented -- keep, discard, repair, etc. Then, used that experience to add similar capabilities to other solutions. E.g., my disk sanitizer looks at each disk and decides, based on criteria that we establish, whether it is too small to be of use, whether it should be "wiped" and discarded vs. DESTROYED without bothering to wipe it (depends on how costly wiping and destruction are in terms of labor). Notices which make/model drives tend to have too many grown defects to be worth saving, which have low performance figures, etc. So, someone knowledgeable need not be present to make those decisions FOR the volunteer! And, the volunteer needn't be tied up performing a useless activity.]

My experience has largely been that volunteers self-selected for the activities they wanted to perform. But, the organization could opt not to support an activity (as above example) which leaves you to make that personal decision.

A guy wanted to build Linux machines. Until he discovered no one WANTED Linux machines! The idea of building Wintel boxes didn't appeal to him so he disappeared. <shrug>

His choice. Management might not see a difference in the two activities -- but *he* did (and his is the only vote that matters!)

We had a bunch of high end, "computer controlled" microscopes donated, at one time. Motorized stages, slides, cameras, etc. I was eager to play with them mainly because I'd never had that opportunity, before. But, the CEO traded them to someone for a vehicle! <shrug> No idea if that was a good trade. It's not my decision to make! Am I going to complain because I wanted to *play* with them?? <rolls eyes>

<frown> How can anyone be surprised when you are WILLINGLY taking in folks who are "serving time" ON YOUR PREMISES?

We have had problems with theft, break-ins, attempted assaults, etc. And, this among (ahem) "volunteers", not The Public, at large!

Imagine letting a bunch of "criminals" into your business and letting them roam around (as they visit the bathroom, lunch room, etc.) scoping the place out. Wonder how long before you come in to find broken windows and items missing!

[This despite having numerous closed circuit cameras around the facility with motion detection software that would alert the COO of after-hours activity. Heck, by the time you put your clothes on for the drive to the facility (to confront someone who MIGHT be armed?), they can have 50 laptops loaded into knapsacks and off into the darkness!]

The latter part can be managed with secrecy -- you don't advertise when you've discovered something "interesting" in a donation. And, you don't let folks LOOK through donations until someone trusted has done so (and removed anything "of interest")

We can tell donors that we won't accept used surgical utensils that haven't been sterilized. But, how do you *know* that as a fact? Perhaps the person charged with packaging up those items wasn't aware of that requirement ("Aren't these just going to the trash?")

A family cleaning out the home of a deceased relative likely isn't too concerned with sorting through the left-over medications to see which can be "safely discarded" and which require "special care"; they just dump everything in a big box/bag and pile it on top of the shower chair, hospital bed, Hoyer lift, etc. as they load it onto the back of a pickup. Do you tell them to "wait" while you dig through their items and decide which to accept and which to reject?

"Cost of doing business"

[Lots of local auctions, here. Fine print of your bidder's contract essentially says, "The WHOLE lot is yours -- and your responsibility -- when you win a bid". The consequence of this is that anything that requires special disposal is YOUR responsibility -- in a practical and legalistic sense! "Wow! That's a really great spectrum analyzer in lot 173! But, I'm not keen on having to dispose of the 10 pound jar of mercury that comes with it!"]

OK. We've not seen that problem. I think because people know what the requirements of specific activities LIKELY are; I wouldn't expect someone to walk in off the street and think they could process medical equipment any more than I'd expect them to think they could repair computers or IV pumps. OTOH, if you'd like to write out Thank You notes to our donors... or, answer the phone... or rake the lot for bits of metal/screws that may have fallen out of donations...

I've a long (very long!) history with these groups. If *you* tried to do this, you'd be "shooed away" as unqualified. But, as the organization holds my certification they know that I am aware of the issues involved.

They also know me personally and my decision making ability.

[From most commercial/industrial establishments I've visited, folks are pretty lax when it comes to "following the rules" (in an OSHA sense). E.g., the two gentlemen I referenced *know* that you really REALLY want to wear the seat belt when driving the forklift. Neither does. I, OTOH, *ALWAYS* do -- because your intuition tells you to jump from the truck if it starts to topple. If you manage to do so, your torso will be cut in half as the truck falls onto it -- you can't jump far enough away to get clear of it. No thanks! Tie me to the seat so I remain safe within the protective cage! If I fall and get bruised *in* the cage, well I probably deserve it for driving poorly!]

OTOH, a volunteer was found to have "stashed" some (new) hypodermic needles that he likely stumbled on in a donation. We don't have to rely on "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" to tell him we no longer need his services. Having them hidden was /prima facie/ evidence, as far as we were concerned!

OToOH, I piled up a few dozen "extra large" syringes with no consequences. They could never be used to inject substances into a body (no metallic tip) as they were HUGE (1" diameter). I use them to suck paint out of jars and transfer it to other jars! "Reputation" goes a long way in determining what you can "get away with"...

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Once you MADE the donation, what control did you have? The item(s) were no longer in your possession. If misused, you couldn't stop that; your remedy was limited to FUTURE donations.

[Imagine it was a cash donation. Once the check is cleared your bank, what can you do to stop it being spent frivolously?]

They just change their staff, mission statement and/or name and keep addressing some OTHER "problem". Who's to confront them (legally) with violating the SPIRIT of their organization?

You can try to expose them publicly (being careful of slander/libel).

Or, privately (when chatting with other donors)

You can report them to the IRS for financial malfeasance (but how can you back up those claims?).

Or, you can just stop doing business with them -- and hope others come to a similar conclusion, eventually.

As with everything else, charity-related, even *this* is inefficient!

Or, fetch one of the video splitters out of the donations that you DISCARDED and deploy it, instead!

Take 11 of the refrigerators and toss them in the "metal scrap" and move all of the "lunches" into ONE refrigerator.

Remove some bulbs from fixtures to reduce power (and light -- you're only open during the day so just leave the blinds open and use lots of natural light!)

Discard any fan found running in an unoccupied room (so the person who was working there realizes/suffers the consequences of his wastefulness)

C'mon, if it was YOUR house and YOUR money, would you act this way? Are you REALLY going to leave all of that equipment on when you depart for the weekend? Is any of it DOING anything? Is there a reason you can't flip the master switch on the outlet strip as you head out the door??

Saving the organization money (by minimizing WASTE) is yet another way to DONATE!

Tabby would know. His primary skill does seem to be alienating people. Being utterly convinced that you know what are talking about - when you clearly don't - is a great way of getting up people's noses

<snip>

What's the current certification to ride on the tines of a forklift, and to help tip loads off one? Does the same cert cover "stabilizing" unstable loads while while walking next to the forklift on uneven ground? Asking for a friend.

Like I mentioned way up in this thread. Some asshole is using "donations" as an excuse to dump trash and liabilities on some other sucker. You're that sucker.

No. When you're in the business of taking donations you assess each donor & stop accepting things from the ones that aren't worth it, and accept the included junk from the ones that are.

snip

I assume you'd need good documentation in order to treat surgical goods as sterilised.

Here I see when orgs get too greedy, adding too many demands to donations, those donations just dry up. If you decide to accept something, in the end got to not give donors endless hassle ith a long list of rules they have no interest in learning. You can't make donors perfectly efficient.

I guess the difference is you can get enough donors with enough skills. For some jobs that's an endless struggle.

Yes, which is 100% fine. And we knew they weren't going to misuse them, they just didn't meet our other requirements.

It wasn't, it was lots of goods we couldn't sell.

as well as feeding it from a tv box or miniature pc

warn them first. Be friendly before that. Or you lose volunteers.

a much overlooked one

Usually, they come still in their original packaging.

Things like dental (hygenist) tools are often loose -- but easily autoclaved and resharpened.

Some donors are very cooperative -- they understand the environment in which we work and try to facilitate our activities. I.e., let

*them* autoclave the items before donating so all we have to do is find a new home for them.

Others are less so.

I don't think it is necessarily a reflection on the donor organization as much as it is on the person(s) that they have actually processing the goods as they exit their facility.

We received a truckload of monitors, one day. The guys unloading them were grabbing them by the screens (i.e., thumb on the display side and fingers on the back side). So, I knew most of them would be crap before I even got a chance to power any of them up (most monitors have "soft faces")

The local food bank tends to be that way, here. Donating *goods* (foodstuffs) to them is relatively easy (of course, they prefer CASH -- to pay their staff!). But, donating time is akin to working for a large corporation; THEY schedule the hours that you will work. And, if you don't show up, you're "fired". Do they think folks are just sitting around waiting for the HONOR of giving up their time??

[Of course I can understand you want to be able to depend on people to fulfill their commitments. But, if you treat it as a "privilege" to offer your time to them, folks will invariably find someone else who will VALUE their time, more!] *Keeping* them is the struggle. You donate time because you believe in how it is being used. You *see* the impact of your efforts (instead of reading about them in some annual report -- and wondering how much of that fluff is attributable to YOUR donation).

OK. As the majority of our donations are time or kit, it's usually pretty easy to track specific donations from donor to eventual client.

A local fire house donated a 65 inch (LCD) TV, much to my chagrin. (hard to find homes for big items). I managed to find a women's shelter that was eager to have it for their "common room" (they house women fleeing abusive relationships).

When a Thank You note arrived from the shelter, we forwarded it (along with a "thank you" of our own) to the fire house so they could see that their donation had continued life (instead of being "recycled" as scrap). They'll think *first* of us, in the future, when they have usable stuff to get rid of.

We seldom receive (written) acknowledgement of our "gifts" from individual clients. They *say* "Thank You" and that's the end of the transaction, as it should be.

On one occasion, a woman for whom I'd refurbished a "mobility scooter" wrote to thank the organization for it as it allowed her to engage in activities with her young niece, attend local conferences, etc. She mentioned me, by name, as I'd driven out to her home to install the batteries (which she had to purchase) and showed her how the scooter operated, how to store it, etc.

Management made a point of showing me the note -- for much the same reasons that we showed the fire house the note from the shelter;

*my* donation of time is what made the scooter viable to the woman (so, let's subtly reinforce that in the donor's mind!)

Ah, OK. Most of ours are things that folks are no longer *using* (though we have one donor who donates "surplus product/components" but most of that is just ewaste -- nothing directly useful to the clients we reach).

Businesses typically donate their desktops and laptops as they go through their scheduled upgrade cycles. Lots of useful life remaining in them (even if left running 24/7/365, that's less than 10K hours/year; practically brand new!)

Or, test equipment (cuz someone decided the lab was due for some new kit).

[I've already cleared two LeCroy scopes, a Rigol and two Keithley programmable DC loads from the first pallet. Hopefully I can finish the rest of the kit this coming week... BTW, the "reason" for the housecleaning *now* (instead of end-of-year) is apparently cuz businesses are flush with extra cash from covid and eager to spend it. "Expect more, come year end!"]

They know we aren't interested in photocopiers, office furniture, motor vehicles, etc. Occasionally, a server will sneak through and I'll either find a use for it (like the disk sanitizer) or we'll tear it down as if it was just another "PC". PCBs from servers tend to command a higher price from recyclers due to added gold content.

Donations of "big" (physically large) computers are discouraged because none of our clients would want to have a big bulky computer in their home/office/institution. Ditto with oversized monitors. UPSs have value only to the extent that we can recycle the batteries contained within (~20-25c/lb -- adds up when you've got 500 pounds of them at a time!)

[This works well for me, personally as *I* can use these items. E.g., my workstations weigh ~60 lbs, each. Who the hell is going to want one of those for a student's computer? And 30 inch monitors?? I give the organization what they would get for these items *if* they had recycled them and they are thrilled knowing that they weren't recycled AND they were compensated! Plus, when I eventually discard them, they'll undoubtedly end up back in their lap to reclaim those recycling fees, again!]

Or autoclaves, Hoyer lifts, (sealed) diabetic test strips, industrial-sized bottles of hand sanitizer (by the half ton because the dispensers had been upgraded and these "cartridges" would no longer fit the new dispensers), BP cuffs, etc. (we've even had donations of UNUSED silicone breast implants... eeeoo! It looks a lot different without *flesh* covering it! :> )

Lots of potential solutions. *If* you see it as a problem!

If, instead, you have the mindset: "I need to burn-in 10 monitors; let me get 10 computers set up..." then you've missed the problem entirely! Why not set up -- and power on! -- *20* in anticipation of another 10 monitors (that may or may not come along)?

*Educate* them. Turn the fan OFF when you find it unattended. They'll have to turn it back ON again. Eventually, they'll ask "who keeps turning this off?" This gives you an opportunity to remind them that leaving the lights and fan on in an otherwise empty room is wasteful. SHOW THEM THE ELECTRIC BILL so they realize just how BIG it is. Most folks don't think about the scale of the operation and fail to realize it's like having to maintain all of the homes on a *block* instead of just "theirs"!

It's not YOUR money so you tend not to think about the "bill" coming along at the end of the month. And, as I mentioned earlier, you don't realize just how *big* the bill actually is!

Do you turn off the test equipment at work when you're done with whatever experiment you've been conducting? Does anyone walk through the facility at 5P on Friday evening making sure unnecessary things are "off"?

There's another nonprofit, here, that has an envious amount of storage space. They keep it unlit. Unheated/cooled. If they need to find something in that space, they use a *flashlight* to hunt for it as that's cheaper than turning on ALL of the lights for that large space (when they really only need to illuminate one small area). This may be a bit excessive but they've obviously decided it fits with their resources and mindset.

Like I said from the start, this is a game played only by greedy assholes.