Mouse Pens

I had one about 12 years ago, and it sucked. It was awkward, and the cord kept getting tangled up with whatever was on the computer desk. I replaced it with the early optical mouse with the metal pad that had a grid printed on it.

D from BC hath wroth:

It's not. I've used one and sold a few. Most of my customers were not happy. Several problems:

1. You have to hold the pen at exactly the correct angle for it to work.
2. The tiny ball at the tip is easily coated with dust, dirt, grease, sweat, and goo. The larger mouse and tackballs do the same thing, but to a lesser degree due to the much larger surface area.
3. The tiny ball has very little traction on most materials due to minimal contact area. A larger ball has the same problem, but works much better due to a larger footprint.
4. The attached cord is like dragging an anchor chain. It's not much of a problem with a larger or heavier mouse, but with a very light pen, the cord drag feels excessive.

Yes. The basics are simple. There are relative positioners, such as a mouse, and there are absolute positioners such as a digitizer tablet. You can have either one emulate the other, with varying degrees of success.

Why not? It works. It's an example of emulating a relative positioner (mouse) with an absolute positioner (digitizer pad). On a digitizer, the mouse would look like a clear plastic hocky puck, with a cross hairs target, and 4 colorful buttons. It could be used as either an absolute position digitizer, or something resembling a mouse. Something like these:

Yep. Anyone that does CAD or electronic drafting. However, it's much easier to make precision cursor movements with a pen, than with a mouse. Note the Wacom 5000 dots/inch resolution. The best mouse can do perhaps 2000 dpi. Large digitzers will do 2000 to 12,000 dpi.

That's the way I used an ancient Applicon CAD/CAM workstation. There was a HOGE button pad with about 100 user defineable buttons. Most of the common functions and objects were setup as macros on the pad. You can do that with a keyboard, but it's much easier to do your menu and symbol picking on the perifery of the digitizer pad template overlay. The Wacom pad is probably too small for that.

Bigger is better (and more expensive):

I think you'll find a larger trackball more useful. The tiny ball in the mouse pen is too small to use effectively.

Incidentally, the first cursor positioner I used was a trackball using a large bowling ball on a 1960's vintage radar display.

Yes, though the mapping can be an issue. Mice are mapped relative, while the default mode for tablets (changeable on some) is to map to the screen - ie, if you want to go from the lower left to the upper right, you have to actually move the pen that far, where with a mouse you can move it and then pick it up to move more, without useing a large area of desk to move it on. Also, (again, perhaps adjustable in software) most mice do acceleration (the faster you move the mouse, the more the pointer moves for every mouse movement) while tablets tend to be fixed.

No, it just means that some folks prefer mouse input (or prefer it for certain tasks), and they provide the option of either/both. You can put the mouse part in a drawer and forget it if you prefer to use the pen.

Tiny ball?

These mouse pens I saw are optical, however corded..

This one is wireless and more penlike. There are sellers on E*ay.

While digging up those links I discovered... a video of a demo of a Wacom tablet as a mouse replacement.

This pen is interesting... based on positioning with IR and ultrasonics.

But the ultimate setup for PCB and schematic work might be with something like this..

D from BC

Mmm... Well...that'll help me figure out if a tablet would be good for PCB and schematic work..

I just found out the Wacom mouse doesn't use batteries and it's to be used on the tablet.. At first, I thought it was some wireless optical mouse... :P

D from BC

Things change... Bluetooth, USB, rechargeables with better energy density...stuff like that.

D from BC

I'm using one of the Wacom tablets/pens/mouse (the Bamboo Fun small). The mouse and pen are "wireless", but there are no batteries and there are no internal active electronics (as far as I can tell). The tablet is USB powered.

The pen is very difficult to use for anything but drawing and painting. I would never use it for general computer operation and using for schematic work is out-of-the-question (unless you want to freehand draw a schematic).

The mouse works well as long as it remains within the confines of the tablet. It's nice because it is wireless, doesn't use batteries, and doesn't require cleaning.

Bob

What makes the Wacom tablet + pen difficult for schematic work? I can only guess... Is there too much hand movement? Perhaps schematic work requires a huge tablet? Maybe it's a matter of practice to beat a mouse? Maybe a higher (Wacom Intuos) end tablet is needed?

D from BC

D from BC hath wroth:

Yep. I don't have it any more or I would post a photo. Piece of junk. However, that was perhaps 8 years ago. Wireless and an optical pickup eliminates solves three of the problems. Holding the pen at the exact correct angle is still a problem.

Well, if you glue a handle on a conventional mouse, that's the result. I'm not sure it's much of an improvement, and certainly useless for drawing, sketching, and painting.

That wasn't much of a video clip. I barely saw the device as most of the video demonstrated problems with a conventional mouse. This is the product:

which is optical and can be cordless.

Maybe. Everyone has their own preferences. I like to separate the cursor positioning and drawing functions. For cursor, I like a big trackball. That's because it's always in exactly the same place on my messy desk. I don't have to look at it to determine orientation or location. Just reach, and it's there when I need it. Since the cursor is a relative position device, I don't have to worry about calibration or running off the edge of the pad.

For input, I like a digitizer pad and cordless pen. Small and light do I'm not tempted to develop a death grip on the device. This one is an absolute positioner, so that the digitizer pad has to be about the same size as the screen. It can be smaller, but then the cursor action tends to become twitchy.

Incidentally, I was watching a class full of prospective graphic artists doing battle with Adobe Illustrator. By watching how they worked, I could predict with a fair degree of accuracy, which students were going to throw the mouse or pen across the room. The ones that had to look at the mouse before using it, were doing badly. Those that had adequate hand eye coordination did not need to look at the mouse, pen, pad, keyboard, or whatever.

Nice idea. I don't have room for it on my messy desk. It's probably also not practical with a laptop in the field.

Over the years, I've blundered into various experimental ways of moving the cursor around the screen. This was mostly from dealing with handicapped computer users. Here's one that uses a USB camera to view head position to move the cursor:

I've tried it and it does work. However, it was only suitable for coarse work (menu picking) and not drawing.

Long ago, I built a "foot mouse". Basically, it was a wooden brick, with 4 spring loaded caster balls, plus one in the middle driving a pair of shaft encoders. Stomp on the foot mouse and it generates a mouse click. It worked so-so. The problem was that it had to be correctly oriented or the cursor would move at an angle on the screen. A guide box for the food solved that problem, but was awkward to use.

Somewhat later, I built a "chair mouse". This was an adaptation of the common swivel office chair to act as a mouse. Swivel left or right and the cursor move horizontally. Rock back and forth, and it goes up and down. Two buttons on the arm rests simulate the mouse buttons. It worked fairly well but did require a bit of tinkering to calibrate it. I sold the chair and design in about 1994.

My favorite total failure was trying to input a mechanical drawing into Autocad 2000 using a joystick and later a joystick based automobile streering yoke. Given sufficient inspiration (free dinner) and immunity to frustration, it can be done.

Some ideas:

Nice, but where do I put my coffle mug?

It also reminds me of cutting rubylith with a swivel knife on a light table to make PCB's. Oh my aching back.

More on the Conoto graphics tablet:

Wacom Cintiq. About $2,500 list:

Glued handle on a mouse.. :) Which gave me this idea...

I just put about 1" of glue gun glue on each side of my mouse to make it bigger for my hand. I'm trying it out now..Cost: 50 cents. Looks like sh*t but it might work. Damn.. I think this logitech RF cordless mouse model I have is made for kids hands. This is why I'm looking to either get a tablet or bigger mouse.

I just thought of a stupid hack idea for a mouse pen...:) Requirements one small ball joint one plastic disk ..say 2" diameter by 0.5mm thick one ballpoint pen one optical mouse

The idea is to mount a regular optical mouse upsidedown and embed it into the tabletop. Then a pen is used to move a plastic disk over the mouse. It's like moving the table instead of the mouse. :)

D from BC

I flipped a mouse upside down and tried out the idea.. It's actually really nice to move a small disk by itself or steered by a pen. :) It's a low mass, low friction and low pain idea. I don't have a deathgrip on the mouse and I'm not forcing my hand to unnaturally conform to a mouse tailored for the average hand.

Mouse clicking can be done on the keyboard using a remap utility. I'm also trying to figure out how to invert a mouse axis. But... lost the scroll wheel with the mouse upsidedown. :( But one can use a coffee mug as a mouse.. :)

D from BC

D from BC hath wroth:

Are you looking through a glass table top? If so, methinks the camera inside the mouse has a limited depth of field and will require different optics.

Nice idea. I sorta like it.

I still prefer a small pen.

or using MS Mousekeys:

Incidentally, also try: Start -> Run -> osk OSK is "on screen keyboard".

Ugh. Easy with a mechanical ball and shaft encoder. Not so easy with an optical mouse using an integrated chip. Perhaps, the driver has some options to run it as a trackball (inverted mouse)? Some clues, but no specific instructions:

Yep. However, it the mug turns out to be too twitchy, switch to decafe.

No glass table.. I plan on making a hole in the desk and mounting the a wireless optical mouse flush upsidedown. :P Arrrfff! Arrffff!...Time to get the jigsaw out :)

It's tough to come up with new ideas these days and I see why this hasn't been done before.. Very few people will want to jigsaw their desk. I can.. :) Or perhaps it's an up and coming product.. "The new Ikea embedded mouse desk."

Keyboard remapping doesn't seem like a problem but mouse axis inverting is..

One of my crazy ideas was to try to use a optical trackball driver to work on a optical mouse.. I think there's no foolery with USB devices. The Logitech trackball installation app installed a wireless mouse driver. :(

D from BC

People who want this, just normally get a digtiser tablet. I have one here, A4, with a wirless puck, and pen, both work on the same tablet, and accuracy is lovely. The 'inverted mouse' design, has more to go wrong, wll be thicker, so 'why re-invent the wheel'...

Best Wishes

Precision tablets are not cheap. >$200.00 new An old optical mouse ($10.00 maybe) mounted upside down and embedded in a tabletop(1) is way cheaper.

(1) For those that has disposable tabletops like myself. :) D from BC