EL7900

You can't argue with it, so you jeer at it.

You were sceptical about my capacity to generate a modified sine wave with conventional counters. I posted a simulation I'd put together years earlier to demonstrate one way of improving the harmonic content of a Baxandall class-D oscillator, which does use counters to generate a modified sine wave.

I wan't trying to start any argument, just refuting one of your many fatuous claims.

How? The digital logic is messy, but that just reflects the limited range of digital parts available from the standard LTSpice library. Since - in practice - you'd bury it all in a single programmable logic device (quite possibly a single chip processor), this isn't actually a real objection.

The analog advantages of generating a modified sine wave in the digital pat of the circuit are overwhelming, but you seem to be too dim to understand this.

Your circuit uses a great many more flip-flops, which is what counts in selecting a programmable logic device. This is the second time you've confused single flip-flops with counters and shift registers, so I can only assume that you've never used programmable logic devices. I haven't used any for about ten years - I've got 15 XCR3032XL-10PCG44C parts in my desk drawer, bought for a project that never got off the ground - but at least I have done it, if on a rather smaller and more primitive part.

Obviously not. I don't happen to be a blowhard, nor need to adopt that particular tactic. You may be too dim to realise this, nor to realise how silly the claim is. Jamie is even dimmer, and some time ago made the comforting - for him - decision - that the reason he couldn't understand what I was posting was that there wasn't anything real there to understand. It makes him look like an idiot, but he's too dim to realise this.

Of course I took the FFT and it's posted on my web-site, with the circuit diagram

I got the 3rd harmonic as 48dB down with respect to the fundamental. Nowadays I use a Blackman-Harris window and the Fourier transform looks a little neater.

I don't know how you managed to screw up to get 30dB - there's only one output, the current through R3, which is identical to the voltage waveform with respect to ground at out+, which is mirrored by out- on the other side of the grounded centre-tap.

I can only assume that you looked at the drains of M1 and M2, which are alternately grounded and exposed to a raise half-sine with an unfortunate amount of switching hash. I know how I'd get rid of that in real life, but it was more trouble than it was worth to build that into the simulation.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Wow, what an abomination. I can't use it "as is", there are to many errors. Do you have a cleaned up version?

?-/

He probably screwed up the same way everybody else did. He got the right answer.

The only modification I made to the schematic you submitted this morning is:

.four 15.7307KHz v(out+)

and got the following:

Fourier components of V(out+) DC component:0.000798606

Harmonic Frequency Fourier Normalized Number [Hz] Component Component 1 1.573e+04 1.678e+00 1.000e+00 2 3.146e+04 4.976e-04 2.965e-04 3 4.719e+04 4.134e-02 2.464e-02 4 6.292e+04 1.948e-04 1.161e-04 5 7.865e+04 2.123e-02 1.265e-02 6 9.438e+04 2.068e-05 1.232e-05 7 1.101e+05 1.189e-02 7.087e-03 8 1.258e+05 8.512e-05 5.072e-05 9 1.416e+05 8.244e-03 4.913e-03 Total Harmonic Distortion: 2.900636%

Third harmonic is -32dB.

On Sep 26, 4:17 pm, John S wrote:

It wasn't the answer I got a few years ago. Presumably LTSpice has improved it's MOSFET models.

is:

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-384 816 -384 784 WIRE -384 816 -496 816 WIRE -144 816 -144 496 WIRE -144 816 -384 816 WIRE 48 816 48 384 WIRE 48 816 -144 816 WIRE 560 816 560 432 WIRE 560 816 48 816 WIRE 944 816 944 560 WIRE 944 816 560 816 WIRE 1216 816 1216 48 WIRE 1216 816 944 816 WIRE 1472 816 1472 640 WIRE 1472 816 1216 816 WIRE -784 848 -784 816 FLAG -784 848 0 FLAG 976 -48 out- FLAG 1392 -48 out+ FLAG 1024 352 tank- FLAG 1360 352 tank+ FLAG 1120 208 ct FLAG 608 208 Drive FLAG -32 592 M1-drive FLAG -32 544 M2-drive FLAG 448 -448 Count SYMBOL ind2 976 160 R270 WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 4 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName L1 SYMATTR Value 0.00025 SYMATTR Type ind SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=3D0.022 SYMBOL ind2 1344 160 R270 WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 4 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName L2 SYMATTR Value 0.00025 SYMATTR Type ind SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=3D0.022 SYMBOL nmos 1424 544 R0 WINDOW 0 -49 26 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -80 114 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName M1 SYMATTR Value FDS6680A SYMBOL nmos 896 464 R0 SYMATTR InstName M2 SYMATTR Value FDS6680A SYMBOL cap 1168 336 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 46 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C1 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMBOL ind2 784 224 R270 WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 5 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName L3 SYMATTR Value 0.001 SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=3D0.044 Cpar=3D100p SYMATTR Type ind SYMBOL voltage -784 352 R0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 24 132 Left 2 SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=3D0.001 SYMATTR InstName V1 SYMATTR Value 5 SYMBOL ind2 976 64 R270 WINDOW 0 44 45 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 5 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName L4 SYMATTR Value 0.0000253 SYMATTR Type ind SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=3D0.004 Cpar=3D100pF SYMBOL ind2 1344 64 R270 WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 5 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName L5 SYMATTR Value 0.0000253 SYMATTR Type ind SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=3D0.004 SYMBOL res 1264 -64 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R3 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL FerriteBead 720 208 R270 WINDOW 0 16 0 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName L6 SYMATTR Value 1.545=B5 SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=3D0.2 Rser=3D1 Rpar=3D785 Cpar=3D535f mfg=3D"Wurth Elektronik eiSos" pn=3D"742 792 79" SYMBOL FerriteBead 800 544 R90 WINDOW 0 -16 0 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName L7 SYMATTR Value 1.542=B5 SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=3D1 Rser=3D0.3 Rpar=3D587 Cpar=3D1.216p mfg=3D"Wurth Elektronik eiSos" pn=3D"742 792 18" SYMBOL FerriteBead 1328 624 R90 WINDOW 0 -16 0 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName L9 SYMATTR Value 1.542=B5 SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=3D1 Rser=3D0.3 Rpar=3D587 Cpar=3D1.216p mfg=3D"Wurth Elektronik eiSos" pn=3D"742 792 18" SYMBOL nmos 512 336 R0 SYMATTR InstName M3 SYMATTR Value FDS6680A SYMBOL pmos 512 64 M180 SYMATTR InstName M4 SYMATTR Value FDS4435A SYMBOL voltage -608 688 R0 WINDOW 3 32 168 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 5 2.48u 0.1u 0.1u 2.48u 5.16u 2000) SYMATTR InstName V2 SYMBOL Digital\\dflop -384 496 R0 WINDOW 3 8 168 Invisible 2 SYMATTR Value Vhigh=3D5V Trise=3D100n Td=3D100n SYMATTR InstName A1 SYMBOL Digital\\dflop -384 208 R0 WINDOW 3 8 168 Invisible 2 SYMATTR Value Vhigh=3D5V Trise=3D100n Td=3D100n SYMATTR InstName A2 SYMBOL Digital\\dflop -384 -128 R0 WINDOW 3 8 168 Invisible 2 SYMATTR Value Vhigh=3D5V Trise=3D100n Td=3D100n SYMATTR InstName A3 SYMBOL Digital\\dflop -384 -432 R0 WINDOW 3 8 168 Invisible 2 SYMATTR Value Vhigh=3D5V Trise=3D100n Td=3D100n SYMATTR InstName A4 SYMBOL Digital\\xor -256 -240 M0 WINDOW 3 16 112 Invisible 2 SYMATTR Value Vhigh=3D5V Trise=3D100n Td=3D100n SYMATTR InstName A5 SYMBOL Digital\\xor -240 96 M0 WINDOW 3 16 112 Invisible 2 SYMATTR Value Vhigh=3D5V Trise=3D100n Td=3D100n SYMATTR InstName A6 SYMBOL Digital\\and 16 -16 M0 SYMATTR InstName A7 SYMATTR Value2 Vhigh=3D5V Trise=3D100n Td=3D100n SYMBOL Digital\\xor -224 384 M0 WINDOW 3 16 112 Invisible 2 SYMATTR Value Vhigh=3D5V Trise=3D100n Td=3D100n SYMATTR InstName A8 SYMBOL Digital\\or -112 48 M0 WINDOW 3 154 945 Left 2 SYMATTR Value Vhigh=3D5V Trise=3D100n Td=3D100n SYMATTR InstName A10 SYMBOL voltage -384 688 R0 WINDOW 3 352 168 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 5 1u 0.1u 0.1u 1u 2.2u 1) SYMATTR InstName V3 SYMBOL Digital\\and -16 272 M0 SYMATTR InstName A9 SYMATTR Value2 Vhigh=3D5V Trise=3D100n Td=3D100n SYMBOL Digital\\or -96 -576 M0 WINDOW 3 -8 128 Invisible 2 SYMATTR Value Vhigh=3D5V Trise=3D100n Td=3D100n SYMATTR InstName A11 SYMBOL res 368 -464 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R1 SYMATTR Value 400k SYMBOL res 368 -96 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R2 SYMATTR Value 200k SYMBOL res 368 240 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R4 SYMATTR Value 100k SYMBOL res 464 -384 R0 SYMATTR InstName R5 SYMATTR Value 1k SYMBOL FerriteBead 480 464 R0 WINDOW 0 -56 1 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName L8 SYMATTR Value 1.542=B5 SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=3D1 Rser=3D0.3 Rpar=3D587 Cpar=3D1.216p mfg=3D"Wurth Elektronik eiSos" pn=3D"742 792 18" SYMBOL FerriteBead 416 336 R0 WINDOW 0 -56 1 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName L10 SYMATTR Value 1.542=B5 SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=3D1 Rser=3D0.3 Rpar=3D587 Cpar=3D1.216p mfg=3D"Wurth Elektronik eiSos" pn=3D"742 792 18" SYMBOL res 768 272 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R6 SYMATTR Value 300R SYMBOL cap 880 272 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C2 SYMATTR Value 47p TEXT -568 888 Left 2 !.tran 0 10m 5m 10n TEXT 944 -280 Left 2 !K1 L1 L2 0.99 TEXT 944 -248 Left 2 !K2 L1 L4 0.99 TEXT 944 -216 Left 2 !K3 L1 L5 0.99 TEXT 944 -184 Left 2 !K4 L2 L4 0.99 TEXT 944 -152 Left 2 !K5 L2 L5 0.99 TEXT 944 -120 Left 2 !K6 L4 L5 0.99 TEXT -568 928 Left 2 !.ic I(L4)=3D-0.00 I(L5)=3D-0.000 I(L3)=3D-0.00003 I(l6)=3D0.00003 I(L1)=3D0 I(L2)=3D0\n.ic V(tank-)=3D0 V(ct)=3D1.5 V(tank+)= =3D3.0

Does marginally better - 3rd harmonic is 34.4db down. The only change is that I made the clock marginally faster, dropping the period from

SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 5 2.48u 0.1u 0.1u 2.48u 5.16u 2000)

Maybe I could get back to the 48dB down that I saw when I first put the simulation together. but I'm certainly not going to spend any more time trying to get there - the LTSpice simulation is a long way from what one would build in real life.

Dumping the logic gates didn't help much. I could then get rid of the shoot-through but the results still didn't suggest that it would be worth the extra effort of building the more complicated circuit, despite it's theoretical charms

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816 -1216 736 WIRE -1216 816 -1280 816 WIRE -1136 816 -1136 304 WIRE -1136 816 -1216 816 WIRE -1072 816 -1072 736 WIRE -1072 816 -1136 816 WIRE -992 816 -992 304 WIRE -992 816 -1072 816 WIRE -928 816 -928 736 WIRE -928 816 -992 816 WIRE -848 816 -848 304 WIRE -848 816 -928 816 WIRE -784 816 -784 736 WIRE -784 816 -848 816 WIRE -704 816 -704 304 WIRE -704 816 -784 816 WIRE 192 816 192 432 WIRE 192 816 -704 816 WIRE 736 816 736 496 WIRE 736 816 192 816 WIRE 1008 816 1008 208 WIRE 1008 816 736 816 WIRE -1936 864 -1936 816 FLAG -1936 864 0 FLAG 768 -48 out- FLAG 1184 -48 out+ FLAG 704 208 tank+ FLAG 240 208 Drive FLAG -208 416 N-FET_drive FLAG -320 -16 P-FET_drive SYMBOL ind2 784 224 R270 WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 4 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName L1 SYMATTR Value 454.93=B5 SYMATTR Type ind SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=3D0.022 SYMBOL cap 752 496 R180 WINDOW 0 24 56 Left 2 WINDOW 3 24 8 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C1 SYMATTR Value 218n SYMBOL voltage -1936 352 R0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 24 132 Left 2 SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=3D0.001 SYMATTR InstName V1 SYMATTR Value 5 SYMBOL ind2 768 64 R270 WINDOW 0 44 45 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 5 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName L4 SYMATTR Value 15.75=B5 SYMATTR Type ind SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=3D0.004 Cpar=3D100pF SYMBOL ind2 1136 64 R270 WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 5 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName L5 SYMATTR Value 15.75=B5 SYMATTR Type ind SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=3D0.004 SYMBOL res 1056 -64 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R3 SYMATTR Value 100R SYMBOL FerriteBead 352 208 R270 WINDOW 0 16 0 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName L6 SYMATTR Value 1.545=B5 SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=3D0.2 Rser=3D1 Rpar=3D785 Cpar=3D535f mfg=3D"Wurth Elektronik eiSos" pn=3D"742 792 79" SYMBOL nmos 144 336 R0 SYMATTR InstName M3 SYMATTR Value FDS6680A SYMBOL pmos 144 64 M180 SYMATTR InstName M4 SYMATTR Value FDS4435A SYMBOL voltage -1360 640 R0 WINDOW 3 -417 288 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 5 7.0175u 10n 10n 1.608178u 63.1575u 4000) SYMATTR InstName V4 SYMBOL voltage -1216 640 R0 WINDOW 3 -529 341 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 5 10.52625u 10n 10n 20.9063u 63.1575u 4000) SYMATTR InstName V5 SYMBOL res -96 -32 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R4 SYMATTR Value 22 SYMBOL res 0 400 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R5 SYMATTR Value 18 SYMBOL Digital\\or -368 368 R0 WINDOW 3 0 0 Invisible 2 SYMATTR Value Vhigh=3D5 Trise=3D10n SYMATTR InstName A1 SYMBOL Digital\\and -512 -64 R0 WINDOW 3 16 52 Invisible 2 SYMATTR Value Vhigh=3D5 Trise=3D10n Td=3D10n SYMATTR InstName A2 SYMBOL voltage -1664 640 R0 WINDOW 3 -185 218 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 5 0u 10n 10n 1.608178u 63.1575u 4000) SYMATTR InstName V2 SYMBOL voltage -1504 640 R0 WINDOW 3 -310 256 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 5 3.50875u 10n 10n 1.608178u 63.1575u 4000) SYMATTR InstName V3 SYMBOL voltage -1072 640 R0 WINDOW 3 -624 393 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 5 33.33313u 10n 10n 1.608178u 63.1575u 4000) SYMATTR InstName V6 SYMBOL voltage -928 640 R0 WINDOW 3 -746 426 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 5 36.83188u 10n 10n 1.608175u 63.1575u 4000) SYMATTR InstName V7 SYMBOL ind2 448 224 R270 WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 4 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName L2 SYMATTR Value 454.93=B5 SYMATTR Type ind SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=3D0.022 Cpar=3D1p SYMBOL cap 608 224 R270 WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName C2 SYMATTR Value 218n SYMBOL voltage -784 640 R0 WINDOW 3 -863 458 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 5 40.34063u 10n 10n 1.608176u 63.1575u 4000) SYMATTR InstName V8 SYMBOL voltage -1280 208 R0 WINDOW 3 -383 -526 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(5 0 8.771875u 10n 10n 1.608175u 63.1575u 4000) SYMATTR InstName V9 SYMBOL voltage -1136 208 R0 WINDOW 3 -503 -555 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(5 0 31.57875u 10n 10n 1.608178u 63.1575u 4000) SYMATTR InstName V10 SYMBOL voltage -1584 208 R0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -144 -451 Left 2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(5 0 1.754275u 10n 10n 1.608178u 63.15750u 4000) SYMATTR InstName V11 SYMBOL voltage -1424 208 R0 WINDOW 3 -281 -492 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(5 0 5.263125u 10n 10n 1.608178u 63.15750u 4000) SYMATTR InstName V12 SYMBOL voltage -992 208 R0 WINDOW 3 -615 -583 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(5 0 35.0775u 10n 10n 1.608178u 63.15750u 4000) SYMATTR InstName V13 SYMBOL voltage -848 208 R0 WINDOW 3 -734 -618 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(5 0 38.58625u 10n 10n 1.608178u 63.15750u 4000) SYMATTR InstName V14 SYMBOL voltage -704 208 R0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName V15 SYMATTR Value PULSE(5 0 42.105u 10n 10n 20.9063u 63.15750u 4000) SYMBOL Digital\\or -464 480 R0 WINDOW 3 0 0 Invisible 2 SYMATTR Value Vhigh=3D5 Trise=3D10n Td=3D10n SYMATTR InstName A3 SYMBOL Digital\\and -608 16 R0 WINDOW 3 16 52 Invisible 2 SYMATTR Value Vhigh=3D5 Trise=3D10n Td=3D10n SYMATTR InstName A4 TEXT -560 992 Left 2 !.tran 0 100m 0 10n TEXT 736 -248 Left 2 !K1 L1 L4 L5 0.99 TEXT -568 928 Left 2 !.ic I(L4)=3D-0.00 I(L5)=3D-0.000 I(L3)=3D-0.00003 I(L6)=3D0.00003 I(L1)=3D0 I(L2)=3D0\n.ic V(tank-)=3D0 TEXT 664 520 Left 2 ;+/-2% TEXT 816 272 Left 2 ;27T TEXT 816 104 Left 2 ;5T TEXT 1176 104 Left 2 ;5T

now only gets the 3rd harmonic some 35dB below the fundamental with a slightly more complicated pulse sequence, which is why I'm a bit sceptical about practical utility of Don Lancaster's magic sine waves.

like so D flop with async set connected to Q7, input grounded and the same clock as the 4017?