Chevy Volt Panned...

It actually is quite different from a Prius. The Prius has a VERY electric transmission, quite ingenious, but if one of the VFDs breaks, the car can't be driven. But, this also allows the car to run under totally electric power. There are two motor/generator units attached to two different gear sets in the transmission.

The Honda Civic hybrid has a continuously-variable transmission, with the assist motor/generator built into the flywheel. They have the most advanced Atkinson-cycle engine in a production car, and this is the biggest part of the fuel economy. If you can keep the engine in the full Atkinson cycle, the economy is quite good. Unfortunately, even going up a moderate hill requires it to shift to Otto-cycle operation.

If the hybrid system craps out (inverter, battery, controls) the car is generally still driveable. There is a 12 V conventional starter motor, so it can start and run without the hybrid stuff. (I've never heard that 12 V starter operate on mine.)

All I know is IT WORKS, and I really don't care a whole lot how it looks. But, I think the Prius is sort of cool looking, anyway.

Jon

Nah, they are much happier. Hardcore traffic jam on a busy Autobahn: Someone has a card game but sitting on the asphalt gets old and the cards get scuffed. So, I removed both front seats and the rear bench of the Citroen 2CV and placed them on the autobahn in a circle. This took less than two minutes. Then opened the trunk and slid out the lid, 10 seconds. This was placed on our laps and, voila, a table.

It's a curiously poor performer considering that it seems to have the right balance of gasoline motor, electric motor, and storage capacity.

The more I read about the Volt's technology, the more it sounds like the hybrid system is a hack. A primary electric motor, a secondary electric motor, a generator, and a gasoline motor are connected via gears and wires. There must be a lot of energy lost going around all those parts.

Why not simply this? Gas motor -> CVT ----#########-----> wheels electric motor

Low power: CVT neutral, elec motor drives Mid power: CVT high gear, elec motor charges High power: CVT low gear, elec motor drives Decelerate: CVT neutral, elec motor charges

in

want

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Government Motors, a perfect example of Barack Obama's government- sponsored green-jobs in real-life.

And don't forget, all the money used for [that thing nobody wants] comes at the pain and peril of real jobs of real people making real products. BHO, JobSlayer.

It's a Barack Obama Teachable Moment(tm).

-- Cheers, James Arthur

Ah, yes, that's mostly how the Honda Civic hybrid works. The electric motor is also connected through the CVT, but they can shut off the engine pretty completely. They shut all valves and it coasts amazingly well. The CVT pretty much never goes to neutral except when the car is stopped. The Honda only has a 20 Hp motor, so it can't accelerate well from a stop on electric power alone. Once up to 15 MPH or so, if you just about take your foot off the accelerator, it shuts down the engine, and then you can cruise short distances on electric power. The battery is so small, you can't stay on electric power for very long.

Due to the losses charging and then discharging the battery, you get much better economy by using the electric assist very sparingly. But, going over gentle hills with an overall downward grade, you can use a little electric assist on the uphill parts and keep the IC engine off for the whole sequence of hills, for instance.

Jon

Volkswagen has revealed the XL1 high economy diesel concept car - a

The green VW XL1 Super Efficient Vehicle is so fuel efficient, it emits just 24g/km CO2 thanks to a plug-in hybrid drivetrain combining TDI diesel and electric motor.

Volkswagen says the XL1 is a concept rather than a production model preview, but the technology used within it could provide clues about how a future VW Golf TDI diesel economy winner could emerge.

See more pictures in the gallery

The 800cc 2-cylinder TDI diesel in the VW XL1 produces 48hp and is paired to a 27hp electric motor. It is the electric motor that operates first, running the XL1 eco car for up to 22 miles.

Above this, the TDI diesel cuts in. It can also operate when hard acceleration is needed, giving it a 75hp overall figure. ________

Meanwhile, my 1999 VW Golf 2.0 diesel averages 52mpg

Doesn't look promising:

John

Why can't they get it right? I would have thought that the optimum is a diesel hybrid with a battery capable of driving the car around 30 miles. After that a low power diesel engine cuts in and runs a generator at its constant optimum speed, capable of powering the car at 60mph with any excess recharging the battery during lower speed travel.

They seem to be going for the impossible - an all electric with a performance to match a normal car.

I would certainly consider a hybrid that would do 150mpg and not cost a fortune for everyday commuter travel.

That's about what a Volt is, except it burns gasoline. And costs $40K or so.

Why lug a bunch of batteries and electric motors around? Regular gas cars are technological marvels. If you want to get better mileage, do what the hybrids do: smaller engine, ugly aerodynamic shape, minimal size and weight. Just skip the batteries.

John

The batteries are what would allow a diesel engine to be used at optimum efficiency - around 50% IIRC

My brother's Audi A4 2.00tdi, probably the same engine, also does 50

-60mpg and isn't it vw that have super efficient polo that does > 90 mpg ?...

Regards,

Chris

Lithium iron batteries are not that heavy and if the motor is an electronic hf design and replaces the flywheel, the weight penalty might not be so bad. It's early days though and until they have the energy storage source sorted out, hybrids will always be something of a bodge, imo.

Hydrogen power might be the answer, but you still need electrolysis to generate it...

Regards,

Chris

It's an 800 kg 2-seater made from exotic composites. A gasoline powered equivalent would get great mileage, too.

My 3.2l A3 gets about 20! On the highway!

John

Yes - I can't understand why people would buy a Prius when a diesel VW can give you better mpg, and offer quite high performance

The best I get from mine at a constant 50mph is around 65-70 mpg At 70mph it drops to 50mpg

Because a VW diesel isn't a "look at me I'm saving the planet badge".

We call it the Pious, trailing clouds of smug.

John

That's serious metal :-). Assume it's a quattro drivetrain ?. I'm still running a '95 S2 coupe from 1998. 160k miles, 28-30 mpg on a run and still uses hardly any oil at all. Rebuilt the brakes last year, replacing 4 calipers, disks and pads etc and the front strut swivel bearings (again). Also the lower wishbone bushes, but apart from that, still not a squeak or rattle anywhere and love it.

Would like to try an S8 next, but too thirsty and complex for self maintenance :-(...

Regards,

Chris

I just think hybrids are a waste of time and effort at present and more of a marketing exercise to appeal to trendy envirotypes, not to mention the well heeled. The technology needs to advance an order of magnitude before it can be a serious challenge and will need a breakthrough in battery technology at least to make it happen...

Regards,

Chris