Boris Johnson

3M can only ship Chinese made products to where China grants the permits. That's the problem with globalization. you are at the mercy of the local th uggery and their on the fly decisions. I'd like to see you force the Chines e government to release what you've ordered when they have seized it, and p aid the OEM their wholesale price.

Only the outer parts of the bales are useless. It was obvious that the f our sides were cut from larger boxes, since the corregations were not strai ght and from the edge you could clearly see the new layer that was glued on to what had been the inside of larger boxes. Corrugated paper is made from fat sheets, a sheet that has been through the corrugator, and sprayed with liquid starch. I've seen it first hand in many factories. It is a noisy and dangerous process, that used high pressure steam to clean the starch resid e from the machines.

My dad worked in the industry for 25 years, and I repaired industrial el ectronics in many of the paper companies in my area.

If that box was new, it would have been made from one sheet, not six.

m deliveries around the world.

Why would anyone hoard hand sanitizer? They can get all they want at Walmart entrances.

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  Rick C. 

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Maybe so, but you have to bring your own batteries to get it. :)

And what about toilet paper? Were the public bathrooms at Walmart ransacked?

I wouldn't put it past some people.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

I appreciate your not taking (or at least not expressing) offense at my Walmart jokes. ;)

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  Rick C. 

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We have friends who never buy sugar. They steal the little packets from cafes.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

I have only bought one bag of sugar in over 15 years. I mix it with Boric Acid and use it in my storage building to kill bugs. I don't use it when I cook.

We must be biased different. I like the turbinado (technically first-press) sugar in my coffee. That takes a 2 lb box every month or so.

Since it's processed less than white sugar, of course it costs more. I used to get it free by the bucket from a cane mill.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

Science teaches us to doubt. 

  Claude Bernard

I just read that Boris Johnson has been moved out of the ICU, so it looks like he wiil eventually end up in the "recovered" column rather than the "death" column.

Get well Boris!

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  Rick C. 

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The wiping is also useful for physically removing virus particles, and especially droplets that cover the particles.

30 minutes is unnecessarily long for most purposes, but leaving it for some time is useful. The bleach breaks down the proteins in the virus shell, and works against all viruses (AFAIK). The time it takes will depend somewhat on how protected they are by mucus droplets. And you get an exponential decay of the active particles - a half-life, if you will.

So wiping with a bleach-soaked cloth will significantly reduce the risk of infection, but not eliminate it.

That's the usual recommendation for disinfection of surfaces and objects. Use 100:1 for hand sanitisation, as an alternative to alcohol. (For the good of your hands, prefer soap and water and only use alcohol if the soap and water is impractical or unavailable. And only use dilute bleach if alcohol sanitizers are unavailable.)

Usually it is too expensive to waste on large surfaces. Dilute bleach is cheap and plentiful.

Wiping does relatively little to remove or disinfect the viruses. In other applications wiping is not even allowed because it only serves to spread i nfectious elements. What does the work is the chemicals used and that take s time.

ll.

You were making sense until your conclusion. A quick wipe with diluted ble ach is not going to accomplish much. It may not take 30 minutes to kill th e virus, but wiping is pretty much pointless. The CDC says, "Leave [the bl each] solution on the surface for at least 1 minute". That's a far cry fro m a bleach wipe.

Even washing your hands with soap and water they say you need to continue s crubbing for at least 20 seconds. Soap is very effective against nearly al l infectious elements. It both removes them in solution and neutralizes th em by dissolving lipids. Lipids are part of what holds a virus particle to gether. So in soapy water the virus just falls apart. Much more effective and easier to use than bleach.

Soap and water are just as effective and even cheaper and easier to use. B ut just like the bleach, it has to be used correctly. A quick wipe doesn't do it.

The advantages of soap and water over bleach are indicated in every referen ce I've found that talks about both.

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  Rick C. 

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I agree that the best methods depend on the circumstances, and that sometimes wiping will spread the thing you are trying to remove.

But for hard surfaces, wiping with a damp cloth /will/ remove much of the infectious elements.

This is really quite simple. Most of the virus particles will be in droplets (from coughs, sneezes, etc.). Wiping with a cloth dampened with disinfectant will physically remove those droplets. There will be traces left, but also traces of the disinfectant left - and without the droplets covering the virus particles, the disinfectant works faster.

In experiments done using different kinds of cleaning methods on kitchen surfaces (the emphasis here was on bacteria, not viruses), it was found that the best choice was a slightly damp microfibre cloth. Take the cloth directly from the washing machine after spinning, but not other drying - that was the ideal level of dampness. Wiping with that cloth with nothing but /water/ on it removed as much or more bacteria than most other methods - even a solid wash in bleach made little significant difference.

Of course the wiping on shopping cart handles has to be done properly, with very limited re-use of the cloth, for example.

You are not going to eliminate the risk of infection from shopping. The aim is to use practical measures that significantly reduce the risk. Since you cannot practically leave shopping cart handles soaking in bleach for a minute (how could that be done?), you do the best you can in a real-world situation. And you combine it with a range of other methods (distancing, hand sanitizer, staff wearing gloves, etc.) that all contribute.

As a customer, you avoid touching your face and wash your hands well the first chance you get.

Soap and water is excellent for both hands and surfaces - no doubt there. It won't work well on all pathogens - some have relatively few lipids on their outer shells. But generally, it's great for all the reasons you gave.

Yes, I agree.

oric Acid and use it in my storage building to kill bugs. I don't use it wh en I cook.

It's not that I don't like it, I just quit using it when I learned that I'm a Diabetic.

Have you ever tried Sorghum? It is cooked down from cane sugar. It's a s pecialty cash crop for some farmers. Each producer did it slightly differen t, so each had a flavor of its own. My grandparents in Eastern Kentucky had people who came back, year after year to buy a year's supply. There are st ill producers in their area, even though both have been gone over 50 years. Menifee County, Kentucky was considered the best in the world at one time. Here is a short video of their equipment in operation in 2007: The last ti me that I saw Ron, he was a little kid.

OK, rather than lecture you, I'll propose an experiment. Put some slightly diluted food coloring into a spray bottle so you can see the micro droplet s after you spray this onto your counter. Then wipe with a "damp cloth". You will very quickly see that this accomplishes pretty much nothing other than smearing the color around. Also keep in mind that this will be easier to remove than the viral aerosol because it is mostly water and is readily miscible. The aerosol from your coughing or even breathing is from your b odily fluids which have much more viscous elements and does not immediately dissolve in the moisture of the "damp cloth".

The chemicals are what do the heavy lifting in disinfecting counters.

Let me know when you've tried the experiment.

The key word there is "significantly". A quick wipe with a paper towel isn 't going to do much.

Exactly the reason to not even consider bleach. Silly idea, a dangerous so lution and easily replaced with soap. I take a can of foaming cleaner (for windows I think). Spray it on and wait 20 seconds. Then I wipe with a pa per towel and use that to open refrigerated cases in the store.

Soap and water is the recommended depathoginizing method by the CDC. It wo rks well on all pathogens I'm aware of. It doesn't have to be lipids, but in this case the coronavirus is held together with lipids. Which pathogens is soap and water not recommended for?

Ok, I guess that says it all.

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  Rick C. 

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Boric Acid and use it in my storage building to kill bugs. I don't use it when I cook.

t I'm a Diabetic.

specialty cash crop for some farmers. Each producer did it slightly differ ent, so each had a flavor of its own. My grandparents in Eastern Kentucky h ad people who came back, year after year to buy a year's supply. There are still producers in their area, even though both have been gone over 50 year s. Menifee County, Kentucky was considered the best in the world at one tim e. Here is a short video of their equipment in operation in 2007: The last time that I saw Ron, he was a little kid.

When you say "cane sugar" that usually mean sugar from sugarcane. They ref er to sorghum plants as canes, but this is a different plant than sugarcane . To make sorghum syrup I think they start with sorghum sugar.

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  Rick C. 

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