Anyone hear of a 120V clothes dryer? (2023 Update)

UK and US operate on different principles. The UK commonly has one circuit for much of a house with a 13 amp circuit breaker on a 240V line. It would be unreasonable to expect devices to handle that sort of current in a fault, so fuses in the plug. In the US I had the impression everything in the circuit had to handle the full rating of the circuit it was plugged into. But I can't say I'm expert in electrical codes.

I've never heard anything credible that 120V is safer than 240V. The risk of electrical fire is not related to the current, rather the current relative to the design specs of the circuit. Your circuit ratings seem to be the same as in the US, so the risk would be the same anyway. My understanding is water heaters for making tea in the UK pretty much suck up the full 13 amps when used.

No. Replacing the receptacle with a 20A one won't prevent that. you can still plug the 15A appliance in, so using a 20A receptacle instead of 15A doesn't gain you anything in that scenario.

Your math is not right, but irrelevant. Adding oil and water to butter is still not butter. I'm not the one who has issues with butter. I like it just fine.

When the local news mentions "fire in this house was caused by short circuit" they do not mean short circuit. They mean "bad contact". E.g. some contact terminal in a plug or socket which is tightened using a screw and did not use proper procedures (such as using ferrules) became loose, was arcing, and caused a fire.

Such problems are related to current, not voltage. The higher the current consumption of a device, the more risk of fire.

Devices like water heaters do not generally cause this issue because there is not enough time for the problem to cause a fire, and/or the malfunctioning of the appliance is quickly noticed.

And the "appliance" is rated knowing that it may be on a 20A circuit. The vast majority of line cords plugged into a 15A receptacle are not rated 15A to start with.

What you seem to be missing is that the plugs and jacks are all the same in a house, no? Do you have high and low current jacks in your house? Do your appliances have high and low rated current plugs? I think the contacts are all the same. A UK house has loads that run the full range of currents and it is the high current range that has the risk of fire, so pretty much the same in the US and UK.

Is that sort of gas line (at least for propane) pretty standard in some places? In Chicago, natural gas runs through black pipe (ungalvanized steel) and that's it. Corrugated metal hoses are allowed to stoves, and furnaces and hot water heaters are connected with pipe and a union. I've seem some youtube videos of furnaces and water heaters being connected with the metal hoses, like with a stove, but never seen that here, even outside the city where rules get more lax.

This is a definite disadvantage of the system, probably more visible in a 2-party system than in our fragmented political landscape. When you have to listen to individuals with their individual wishes to be elected, you can never make decisions that are favouring the country as a whole. Or even the world.

Because the EU believes in free trade, both within and outside of the union.

Well, in the past few decades we need militairy protection mainly to protect us from the mess that the USA has made of the world. I know that in the past the USSR was the enemy, and Germany even before that, but lately our enemies are those countries where the USA has attempted to bring western values. And failed to do so.

That certainly is a problem for us. But of course we look similarly to those that build a city on top of a fault line...

That is why infrastructure maintenance here is not done by or left to decide by individuals, but to governmental organisations that monitor the situation, make maintenance plans, and ask for the required budget. (this is of course not the case for private property like condominiums, but certainly for roads, bridges, railways, watermanagement etc)

I don't think everyone should immediately start spending crazy amounts of money on it, but at least one could take energy efficiency in account when making purchase decisions or using equipment.

Yes we have different kinds of plugs, just like in the US. (different for regular items and for high power consumption items like an electric stove, but also differences beteen plugs used for low current double-insulated devices like a phone charger or a stereo and higher current devices with ground connection. Those have thicker pins that are full length, rather than the insulated base type thinner pins that the lowpower ones have. But they are compatible with the same wall socket.

However this is unrelated to the topic. When you have a plug for mounting on a cable or any other construct where wires are connected together there is the risk of assembling these connections incorrectly or having them go bad over time. That is the place where fire risk exists, and it increases for higher current. When your devices generally use less current, the fire risk from this problen decreases.

And so they use the same pins with the same current rating...

But your circuits have similar max currents, 9 amp vs. 15 amps. I don't get where you are going with this. All of your connections are designed for the lower current, so in the end there is no reason to think there is any advantage. What gauge wire do lamps use?

No, its not that people aren't listening. They are just nodding their heads until they get the votes to be elected. Then, doing whatever they want. E.g., farmers ("Red" states) know that the writing is on the wall. Soon, their assets (the land they own) will be unable to support them. You can drive your million dollar combine to some farmable area further north... but you can't move the *land* along with it!

But, keep voting for the same denialist politicians that are torpedoing your livelihood. That makes good sense -- not!

So, you believe in that more than in protecting/saving the planet? How is that any different than our believing in "consumption" as acceptable practice?

How many of your countries fell into place alongside the US when it beat its chest over those issues? Are you just lap dogs? Where was the active dissent? Don't you have voices in NATO? Can't you *withdraw* from it as a form of protest? Set up your own "EUTO"?

My point is that it is relatively easy to point at others and proclaim folly. Given the inevitability (>) of sea level rise, what are you actively doing to mitigate it? Are you abandoning those areas at risk and, instead, building *up* in the remaining real estate?

Or, do people not like that option (like folks here don't like living in warm houses)?

Infrastructure maintenance is not done by the gummit. It is all done by the private sector under contract *to* the gummit. I.e., all of the monies for doing it flow into the private sector.

But, people have to approve those monies. Even if they agree on the need, they may disagree on the funding: "Let's cut <something-I-dislike> and use the money from that to pay for <something-I-want> -- cuz the idea of raising taxes would violate the oath I took..."

Imagine 500+ of these people (at the federal level) each imposing their own will on the funding issue.

We would like to have the streets in our neighborhood repaved. To be honest, they aren't bad. But, there are folks who always want *better*. And, asking for it comes at no cost! So, let's ALL get together and ask for it!

Yet, when I drive through "less fortunate" parts of town, it is obvious that our roads are infinitely better than theirs. But, they lack the political clout ($$) to have their demands heard.

So, we could tax ourselves to raise money to pay for more widespread improvements. But, the folks who put those proposals on the ballot always overreach -- $1T in the last proposed bond issue.

"Um, no."

So, more time will pass and the roads will continue to deteriorate. And, the next time, they'll likely ask for even *more*. And, be surprised when it, too, fails to pass.

"Let's expand the city zoo!"

"Let's do more public art!"

"Let's ..."

Note that each of these bond issues sits on your property tax assessment for decades. It's not like its a one time charge that makes way for some OTHER charge, next year.

We do. It's just not a HIGH priority!

Give me two identical devices at similar price points with different energy usage factors and I'll opt for the more efficient one. But, make me pay a premium for that and it's a lot easier to just say, "No thanks".

This is where gummit standards try to push sales in a particular direction. But, the equipment vendors clearly are eager to raise their prices than "work towards the better good". Presumably, their marketing droids have told them that people are willing to pay $X for some level of energy efficiency -- but no more. Why won't they "settle" for the difference in their *cost*? Or, put that into every product they offer??

Note that we don't have an "energy problem". All the electricity, gas, fuel, etc. that we want. And, at reasonable rates. Why conserve?

[The city started harping on our water consumption fearing they would run out. Raise prices to discourage use. Then, when consumption falls, raise prices again because they aren't getting enough revenue from the reduced consumption! How many times do you think you can play that game before folks wisen up?]

If we were 100% solar and still used a shitload more electricity than the rest of the world, would you object "on moral grounds"? Where is the point where the effect on the planet vs. our wastefulness tips one way vs the other? Remember, you're asking this of a citizenry that can't manage to wear a mask to protect their neighbors... (I suspect that problem isn't unique to the US so where's the "fellow man" issue, there?)

Should China stop burning coal and just wait longer to lift their people's standard of living using ONLY 100% renewables? What about India?

SWMBO purchased her new car a few years back. She had her list of requirements. I added a few things that she'd not considered. Did she even LOOK at EVs? Nope. Did she look at the mileage estimate -- yeah, briefly.

Instead, she bought what she wanted to drive. We average 22MPG and have done so over the life of the vehicle. The average speed (reported by the vehicle) has been 19MPH. Yet, we only consume ~200 gallons of fuel per year. What are we going to save by adopting some "Smart Car" or EV with a higher MPG rating? What (of the items on her purchase criteria list) will we sacrifice to get that?

Should we buy a more fuel efficient car just because it is the morally correct thing to do -- while others drive pickup trucks getting *18* MPG around us? Maybe we should start riding bicycles, instead? Or, walking?

Or, should *we* force folks who use more energy than we do to make changes? Then, wouldn't those folks who ride public transportation claim they should be able to force *us* to make changes?

There's sort of a huge difference in the quality of commercial work, like the lab and what you find in a home. In your case, if the neutrals were physically shared, it's a multiwire branch circuit, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. It could also be nicely balanced wiring, you'd have to pull the receptacles to know for sure. Balanced load across your phases is good.

Well, nobody past the original installer would seem to care, and that's the problem. The end product can dangerously drift from what was installed, since a homeowner can "easily" make changes themselves.

Shared neutrals are a no-go for GFCI receptacles. They don't work for GFCI or AFGCI combo breakers installed at the breaker box either. This excludes their modern use in kitchens or bathrooms, in practive or in current codes.

The dangers of the shared neutral are 1) it's easy to overload if not wired correctly, and 2) they can fault and voltages in excess of 120 volts can be presented to a 120 volt outlet.

lights flickering or getting brighter when you run things like vacuum or switch things on and off in another room is a telltale sign something is very wrong.

sure butter is best, but spreadable straight from the fridge is awfully convenient and afaik invented more than 100 years ago

ingredients list says 80% butter, nutritional content says 80% fat

why wuold either of us need to state that your users eat more & live in winder temp swings.

What about them do you claim is not understood?

How do you come up with that claim?

That's how it used to work in UK. But it turned out that most people didn't know when to fit 3A, 5A or 13A fuse, so everything is now required to be adequately protected by a 13A fuse. And now that we have breakers in the fusebox, usually that goes before the slower plug fuse.

Fire is the main way electricity kills. The US system is not safer. Voltage is lower but many US electrical practices are regarded here as archaic.

32A breaker in a ring circuit, or less often a 20A breaker on a line.

Standard ring circuit is 32A 240v = 7kW. UK-only kettles use 13A 240v 3.1kW, but most kettles are made for multiple countries so use 10A 2.4kW.

Frig energy usage doesn't translate to "eating more". Many frigs have a good bit of their interior space devoted to storing *water* (forgetting about ice, for the moment). If I have to open the frig 8 times a day to retrieve a glass of *cold* water, does that mean I'm a glutton? (this is why frigs have "thru-the-door" dispensers.

Replace "water" with "lemon juice" to put in my tea.

Or, palette of water color pigments for SWMBO to paint with.

If I'm eating salad greens and you're eating sausage, which of us is "eating more"?

Frig is just "cold storage". Anything that wants to be kept cold can consume energy towards that goal.

Can you tell me how the usage patterns of your appliances are quantified? How many times each day the frig is opened? How long it is kept open? Length of time between openings (i.e., how well it can recover)? Sorts of things stored in the frig? Anything else that might impact its energy consumption?

I know *I* can't tell you that for the US market so I'd be surprised if you could for your market and even moreso if you could tell me for mine!

I'm citing the figures Rob (?) produced, earlier, wrt his energy costs.

You have to understand a bit more of the EU... it was established as a trade union, originally for coal and steel. Its main purpose was to integrate Europe into a single trade zone. While trying to accomplish that, some people thought that this would only be feasible by making it a political union, some even want to make it a "United states of Europe". This has however encountered a lot of resistance and probably even caused a country to leave the union (a referendum here resulted in a NO on that development as well). But still the current situation is that there are large political movements that want larger goals like saving the planet, but there still is the original "lobbying group" that is mainly focused on markets and trade.

A lot of people here strongly disagreed with the military actions we as a country did in countries were we "should introduce western values". After the fact, this has become even more. But the politicians decided to do this purely to please the USA and get other advantages from that, not because they agreed on the basic principles behind it.

Yes, we do take some measures regarding improved water management. It could still become a problem depending on how much the rise will be, that is why politicians also try to implement measures (or try to express the urgency of doing that) to limit the raise. In my opinion that is a foolish thing to do because it costs a lot of money and will not have a real effect that would save us, but at least it is a principle of action.

When I understand the publications correctly, the chances that there will be a devastating earthquake in California in the coming 50 years are vastly higher than that the sealevel will rise so much that we get in big trouble.

(it is not as much the direct effect of the sealevel raise that affects us, like that it would flood the coastal cities, the problem is more that we see intensified rain showers and it will become more difficult to get rid of that water as rivers will get higher because they cannot flow into the sea as easily)

That is true for the actual work here as well, but we have a large planning agency that oversees what has to be done and does the contracting to the private companies. That is based on inspections and pre-made maintenance schedules, rather than waiting for something to collapse and then make a big uproar.

Yes that is the main difference. In the Netherlands we do not have a president that can make such naive decisions. We have a king but that is only a ceremonial function.

Our heat-pump based tumble dryer does have a heat exchanger, and I have to clean the fluff out of it from time .

The condensed water is collected, but it doesn't drain away. It gets dumped into a removable tank, which I have to pull out and empty down the sink pretty much every time we've put a load of washing through the drier.

The air-conditioner drains its condensate outside, next to the external radiator, but the coolant circulation had to be plumbed in anyway. The tumble drier just stacks on top of the washing machine, and they keep it simple by letting the user dump the condensed water, rather than adding a drain pipe to get rid of it.

We've got one back in the Netherlands and it works exactly the same way.