Anyone hear of a 120V clothes dryer? (2023 Update)

I'm sure one can learn/be taught (trained?) to be more aware of how often this is done. But, there is no immediate NEGATIVE feedback. So, nothing to discipline users against the practice.

Inca cold climate, stepping out of a warm house into freezing temperatures "teaches you" not to leave the door open. The same isn't true in a hot climate with a cool house interior.

We don't have that problem. E.g., I can leave a bowl of popped corn on the counter, overnight, and it will still be crunchy the next morning. This isn't true during Monsoon; but, that's a relatively short season (and not always very humid).

Hence "defrosting the freezer". Most frigs have heaters to automatically defrost the freezer compartment (hence ill advised to leave many things in that compartment for long periods of time).

Our "deep freeze" must be manually defrosted (has a built-in heater that you must manually activate). Despite being located in the garage (where the air has no "conditioning" wrt humidity), we only need to do this once each year. We time the activity for the point where the freezer is least full -- just prior to harvesting citrus juices (when the last year's harvest is just about gone). We'll store 100 qts of fresh-squeezed OJ, about 30 qts of lemon juice, a qt of lime juice (a little lime juice goes a LONG way!) in addition to the normal frozen foodstuffs. Things will be cramped (the chest fills to the top; you have to physically remove the baskets to access what lies below -- there is no room to "slide" them to the side, as intended).

Anything that isn't juiced or stashed in the frig is given to neighbors or donated to local food bank.

[We get about 300 pounds of fruit off each tree]

As we don't have "less used" interior spaces (e.g., basements), the garage is the only option for anything of size. I can't think of anyone who *doesn't* have at least one refrigerator and likely a freezer, as well, in their garage. Neighbor just remodeled her kitchen. So, the "old" frig joins the OLDER frig in the garage.

Again, there's little/no consideration for the added electrical load. Instead, it's seen as a boon: "Oh, good! I can store MORE stuff out there!"

Another friend has two frigs and a freezer in addition to his kitchen appliances. And lives alone (!)

E.g., it is fairly common to have a couple of cases of bottled water in a spare frig; you wouldn't want to waste all that space in your *indoor* frig but having a steady supply of cold water is seen as a win (personally, I think the idea of buying water in bottles is ridiculous).

Larger households often find a "normal" (20 cu ft) frig to be too cramped. E.g., two of us keep such a frig pretty full. Come Feb/Mar when the blossoms on the orange trees are too large to be ignored (and in danger of being knocked off the tree while harvesting fruit), we'll load the frig with a few hundred oranges. We will feel "cramped" for space, at that point, and our shopping habits will change (until we've had a chance to consume some of the harvest).

As with anything, it is very easy to become accustomed to "more" vs. "less". More food storage, more habitable space, bigger vehicle, etc. And, unless there is some pressure working against these tendencies, no real incentive to counter them. The convenience they represent is hard to ignore (e.g., tomorrow we'll make pizzas. No shopping for ingredients necessary -- just remember to take them out of the freezer early enough for them to defrost prior to lunch!)

Reply to
Don Y
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This procedure (moving the old fridge to the garage when a new one is bought) is a common cause of energy waste here, because in an old fridge the insulation material usually deteriorates, and as the fridge is then always in a more damp environment than indoors, the material saturates with water causing the insulation properties to become very bad. As the fridge or freezer is now outside of the environment where it is monitored all day, nobody notices that the compressor is now running 24h/day instead of only during short intervals. Even when it is now opened much less than the kitchen fridge, and may be at a lower temperature (here), it still uses way more energy.

When it is a freezer, it often happens that once it is finally powered off and allowed to warm up, several liters of water pour out of the insulation...

Reply to
Rob

I think most frigs, here, use styrofoam for an insulator. But, I've never taken a look.

It's also hard to dispose of old appliances. The firm selling you the replacement will often offer to cart away your old appliances as you'd be hard pressed to dispose of them, otherwise.

But there is an *appeal* to having more "cold storage" which is hard to ignore! No one would consider keeping an old stove (where to hook it up?) or dishwasher. Or, washing machine/dryer (though I've known some large families to keep an old washer on hand as the hookup is easier than for that of a dryer).

And, often, older appliances have convenience features that have been "bred out" of newer ones. E.g., having a butter compartment with separate thermostat (heating element!). Here, I have to nuke the butter in order to get it soft enough to spread easily. Or, take it out of the frig early in the day so it can warm to room temperature if I'm using it while baking.

In ages past, you'd just dial a "softness" and be assured the butter would be immediately usable right out of the frig.

New frigs are also very "plastic". They don't leave you with the impression that they'll be "around" for very long!

Finally, when you look at the price of a new frig, you assume your old one has similar "value" ("Gee, the new frig was $5K! This old one still works so it surely must be worth *something*!")

Reply to
Don Y

I've known people (even couples) that lived on a 32' sailboat. That takes some discipline.

Reply to
jlarkin

Yeah, PV solar is not very good for heating anywhere. What's your point?

Reply to
Rick C

Yes, a substance like that. But after 25 years it can crumble and let air pass in, and as it is always cold at one end the water from the air can condense and soak it.

Here they are obliged to do that. However, once you tell them you don't want that and move the old stuff to the garage, of course they are not obliged to come back a couple of years later to collect it. We have recycling centers for that, every city has one or more of them, where you can bring it. Or you can make an appointment with a collection service and put it on the curbside at the agreed date, and it will be collected. This comes out of the yearly waste charges paid to the municipality (the recycling centers are also paid from that).

Butter is a problem here during the height of summer, during other times of the year I just keep the package I am currently using outside of the fridge. When it is hot, that is not possible and I have to keep it at the top of the fridge where it is still a little too cold. The manufacturers can actuall adjust the softness of the product but it appears it is becoming less soft over the past years, I did not really have issues for a long time but the past couple of years butter from the fridge is hard to use.

That must be one with built-in tablet and camera? Even the most expensive fridge in the "American style" class here is only about $2500 in a webshop, but of course you can pay unlimited amounts of money in specialty shops. A typical full-size fridge/freezer would be like $1000 here.

But indeed they do not make them like they used to, anymore. Fridges used to have almost unlimited lifespan, it was no problem to have one working for 40 years or longer. And of course with that comes a sufficiently sturdy interior and door so that this is not the first thing to fail. However this of course has the disadvantage that you cannot track developments in efficiency and other features either. New fridges have an electronic controller with proportional control of the motor (it does not simply turn on/off but can run at different rates). That improves efficiency, but of course 25 years ago such a feature would have been much too expensive, today it is cheap and easy to manufacture.

Reply to
Rob

Even 25 year old refrigerators don't run an order of magnitude less efficiently.

Reply to
Rick C

When growing up if the refrigerator started up the TV picture would srink to about half size and start rolling.

Now the thinking is not so much for the current, but use a seperate circuit for the refrigerator and freezer in the basement if you have one is that you do not want to chance trippin a breaker going to the food coolers and loosing the food due to something tripping a breaker in say another room and not being noticed that it is also going to the refrigerator

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

Of course!

We have twice annual curbside pickups of damn-near-anything-you-want-to-discard (except hazardous waste). So, drag your appliance out to the curb and the city will come pick it up (on those two occasions).

ISTR it wants to be stored below 70F. Salted being more resilient than unsalted. SWMBO prefers unsalted (dunno why; I can't taste any difference and I consume the vast majority of it!) so that's what tends to get purchased (unless I conveniently "forget" :> )

A few seconds in the microwave does the trick. But, a few too many and you end up with a yellow puddle in the butter tray! :<

And, the "stick" (1/4 lb) doesn't thaw evenly. So, you tend to have to scrape the softest butter off one side or the other. Which leaves you with an odd looking lump to return to the frig.

When baking, I can just let it sit on the counter for a while to get it soft enough to easily fold into the mixture. In a jam, I'll place the sticks adjacent to the tea kettle as I'm boiling water to speed up the process.

Nope. Those aren't particularly expensive -- relatively speaking:

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You can spend insane amounts on ANY appliance:

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Or, very little:

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Some folks think spending more for an item makes it "better". Or, want to impress their friends/family/neighbors.

I'm always amused to find folks with $10,000 ovens that never cook/bake! (Ah, but isn't it impressive?)

Exactly. When we were shopping for refrigerators, we started asking about "expected lifespan". When we found a candid salesperson, we stopped shopping and decided we could live with what we already had! ("You expect me to replace it HOW often??")

And, new refrigerators often have bugs in their controls. IIRC, Electrolux had a temperature control problem that left the interiors at ~40F. Ooops!

There are some models that have multiple evaporators so you can independantly set the temperature of up to 4 different "compartments". But, they want you to pay dearly for this feature (most frigs have a single evaporator in the freezer section and rely on leakage from that to cool the rest of the frig).

Sadly, manufacturers RAISE prices for these features -- that often reduce their costs. Thus inhibiting wider adoption. The idea of passing along savings seems anathema to them!

Reply to
Don Y

So what was the point of your post again?

Reply to
Cydrome Leader

Well, the problem is that green politicians here think that it is...

Reply to
Rob

your color coded attempts to describe a multiwire branch circuit were adorable. Per latest codes they should not be used in kitchens anymore. I don't even recall the last time I saw one installed correctly in a home with a tandem breaker.

Reply to
Cydrome Leader

What heat is being removed from the surrounding? The liquid moisture in the clothes is being evaporated, then condensed. The only heat involved is the heat what is released from the electricity consumed.

Heat can not be "removed". Like "removing" water, it can only be moved to another location. The dryer is self contained other than the electricity, so it can only release heat to the environment, not remove it.

Reply to
Rick C

Are you sure about the 15A receptacle? That would mean the circuit was not protected to 15A, but at 20A! So a 15A appliance could draw close to 20A without tripping the breaker, something the appliance is not rated for, no? Or is the breaker only there to protect the house wiring and not the appliance wiring? In the US appliances often do not have fuses.

Reply to
Rick C

appliances often do not have fuses.

In the US the breaker/fuse is only to protect the wiring. Mostly for fire protection. YOu do not want the wiring to get hot enough to cause a fire.

It is up to whoever makes items that plug into the outlets to provide whatever protection they need. Most items other than the very inexpensive things like lamps will have internal fuses to protect them. They are just hidded inside and not easy to get to for the average home owner. Chances are that if an internal fuse blows the home owner would not be able to repair the device anyway. This country is getting to where it surprises me if they can chage a light bulb.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

That is why it works well. Temperature during summer can be above

70F here but during the other seasons it is normally below, and indoor temperatures are usually just below 70F (20C) and everything is fine. But during summer (especially lately "due to that global warming") indoor temperature can be 90-100F and the butter melts.

Home Depot does not want us to view their very secret and undoubtedly rights-encumbered content:

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Reference #18.64c31302.1633535194.38000f5a

Indeed. Especially in the kitchen.

But that is one of the causes of the limited temperature range problem! When you put such a fridge in a cold area like a garage in wintertime, it does not have to spend too much effort to keep the fridge part cool enough, and as a result the freeze part does not get cold enough and thaws. (the sensor for the thermostat is only in the cooling section)

So independent control is required when you put it in a space without temperature regulation, something that people who move an old fridge from the kitchen to the garage often do not realize.

That is likely a local thing. We have so much competition in the energy efficiency area (and sometimes some form of government control) that energy-saving features often are not priced unattractively.

Reply to
Rob

Breakers usually only protect house wiring. Also they do not trip at a slight current above their rating, at least not very quickly. A 15A breaker (and even more so a 15A fuse) will pass 20A for quite some time before tripping.

Reply to
Rob

You do not have to change light bulbs that often anymore...

Reply to
Rob

Even 1920s monitor tops were insulated with cork iirc. I've never seen one without insulation. US fridges are around 2x euro size, which increases surface area something like 50%, leaving a wide gulf between your figure and what I've observed for decades.

Energy use has increased, efficiency has also increased.

Reply to
Tabby

Even 1920s fridges can beat that.

Reply to
Tabby

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