Old style filament lamps?

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From my perspective, I don't know why I /need/ to justify the better current CFLs. To only slightly paraphrase Sam Spade... "They're good. They're very good."

I don't think objections come solely from people with non-standard color vision (though, obviously, they're more-sensitive to non-continuous spectra). There are multiple issues.

People are used to lights reaching "full" brightness very quickly. This is of no concern to me, if the lamp more-than-sufficiently bright when it's turned on. (This one reason I use only 90W or 100W-equivalent CFLs. When you're using only one-fourth the energy of a standard incandescent, why use anything smaller?)

People object to the shape of coiled CFLs -- at least when they're visible. The choice of shade should fix this.

People object to being forced to buy something they don't want. This is a political issue that should perhaps be discussed later.

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That's hardly "odd" if you have little or no red sensitivity. It's to be expected.

The obvious question is... Why doesn't tungsten lighting show a similar green cast? The answer might be that tungsten lighting puts out more red energy, over a wider band.

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Exactly. For instance, I do like CFL lamps, but I understand people who find them objectionable just because they don=B4t like their shape (I admit that spiral ones are ugly), or because they don=B4t like the quality of the light produced by them. I also avoid store brand lamps because most of the time they are rubbish. I usually find that store brand lamps are either short lived, blueish, or completely lacking in light output.

Thats why I only buy Osram, Philips or General Electric CFL=B4s. To my tastes, the best CFL regarding light quality is the 2700K General Electric. They are almost indistinguishable from an incandescent lamp, and I find them perfect for household use. They start pretty quick at a 70% ilumination level and have very good life. I have some that are still running since I bought them 7 years ago, 5 - 6 hour of daily use.That makes more than 15000 hours in each, and they are still going strong. Then the second best one is the Philips, but I don=B4t like their 2700K CFL=B4s because I find them a little pinkish for my tastes, and sometimes they are hit or miss. If the ballast doesn=B4t get blown the first year of use, they will last for a long time.

For general purpose use, like illuminating exterior areas, I prefer

4100 K lamps. Osram lamps are excellent for that application, they are the longer lasting of all, but their 2700K lamps aren=B4t available in my country, so I avoid they use at home.

I personally hate 6500 K lamps for general household use except inside a task lamp. I think they don=B4t have a place in a household, perhaps in a kitchen but they are too bluish for my tastes. In a commercial environment they are ok, or in a photographic studio, but not in a household.

In the end, I think that CFL=B4s will be superseded by led lamps, once that led lamps become more powerful for general use. Problem is that regarding light quality, led lamps have the same shortcomings of CFL =B4s, at least right now.

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Flicker frequency? CFLs flicker in the kHz range. Imperceptable. Bigger difference is incandescents are more of a point light source, which is easier to read fine details -- including letter fonts -- by. I still prefer them for paint and finishing work, where I need more accurate color (halogens are second only to sunlight) and shadow rendition.

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Bunsen grease spot photometer:

Essentially a sheet of paper with a grease spot in the middle.

It's amazing how blue a 3500K warm white bulb will look when held next to a 2700K.

26/100 watt 6500s are excellent for growing plants under. 42/150s are even better, but cost twice as much for 50% more output.

LEDs are point sources and produce harsher, less comfortable light.

GE is or will be selling LED lamps in conventional bulbs.

Regardless of perceived color temperature, a discontinuous source is more likely to cause problems with metamerism.

Given proper filtration, any tungsten source should be fully equal to daylight.

By the way, noon daylight appears, to me, slightly yellow.

"Father Haskell"

Flicker frequency? CFLs flicker in the kHz range. Imperceptable.

** The light of a CFL is modulated at 100 Hz too.

Cos the internal DC supply is very poorly filtered.

In general, the 100Hz ( or 120Hz) light modulation is less than experienced with regular fluoros and low wattage ( 60 or 70 W) incandescent lamps.

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My torchieres were designed to fit 50-100-150 W bulbs. No one makes a globe or bullet brightness equivalent, much less a three-way CFL. I tried a "100 W equivalent" twisty bulb, and promptly brushed it against the ceiling, turning my living room into a hazmat scene.

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I should just throw away my torchiere lamps? Already I can find no CFL equivalent for my 60 W hall fixture -- an incandescent bulb that has lasted at least 20 years -- it hasn't been changed since we bought the house. I guess I'll stock up on clears since it is a cloudy decorated globe fixture.

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That is also true. Specially in cheap (read: bad quality) CFL=B4s. The effect becomes worse as the CFL ages, I guess that happens because the poor quality filter caps inside the ballast lose capacitance as the heat generated by the electronics cooks them.

Inside brand CFL=B4s I have found 105=BAC caps inside, cheap ones usually have 85=BAC caps and with less capacitance. In some CFL=B4s the internal fuse opens when one of the filter capacitors fail shorted, often after venting, in some others the filter capacitor just opens electrically and the CFL starts to flicker badly at 120 Hz. That also happens with cheap chinese ballasts for linear fluorescent tubes.

One more reason to avoid *no name* CFL=B4s.

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You and a previous poster are sexist. It is 12% of males that are color-blind to varying degrees. That's only 6% of the total population if we assume more or less equal males and females.

You and a previous poster are sexist. It is 12% of males that are color-blind to varying degrees.

Here is what I wrote, you idiot:

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12% of all males are colour blind - ie they fail one of the basic tests.

Only 1 or 2% of females are so afflicted - but THEY are the CARRIERS !

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That's only 6% of the total population if we assume more or less equal males and females.

** Silly and irrelevant.

.... Phil

What about simple selfishness on the part of the consumer?

Suppose a 100W-equivalent CFL that draws 25W lasts only 1000 hours. In that time you save 75kWh. At 10 cents per kWh, that's $7.50 -- three times the cost of the bulb.

3-way CFL's do exist. I have several. In the US, Target and WalMart sell a GE branded one. Sylvania also makes one that you can find at home improvement stores. There are also several store-brand models.

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In-Excess have loads of 60W and 150W conventional lamps, West End, Southampton this pm, depots may vary across the country

Lots of things I don't like I had to adapt to because they were NLA or not practical. I feel lucky at this point to afford electricity 24 hours a day.

--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

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They want 'equality' - so now you're all equally miserable. Coming soon to this side of the pond.

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$0.10 per kw-hr is subsidized (baseline) electricity. A tolerable average for domestic electricity is about $0.19 per kw-hr and about $0.28 per kw-hr for commerical electricity. The highest rate for commerical power shown is about $0.45 per kw-hr

Throw in the cost of manufacture, cost of packaging, cost of replacing the heat produced by the incandescent lamp in winter, and CFL looks even worse. Light reading:

Some of the above is more than a little alarmist and paranoid, but still interesting. For example, it takes 16 times as much energy to produce a CFL bulb, but at $0.17 per kw-hr, the difference is cost is negligible.

On the base of all my CFL bulbs, I scribble in pencil the date it was installed. I've been doing this for about 10 years. I have yet to see a CFL bulb that I use every day last more than about 3 years. CFL bulbs that point down last maybe a year. However, I still have one 40 watt desk lamp bulb that is about 30 years old. Unfortunately, the piece of paper that I was scribbling the results has disappeared. If I find it, I'll post my numbers.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
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