Basic fuse question

Oct 17, 2013 Last reply: 4 years ago 33 Replies

Here's the dark side of replacing caps. Switching power supplies often work by stuffing pulses of current thru inductors into caps from a higher voltage. Primary failure mode of caps is increased series resistance, ESR.

When that resistance increases, there's a step in voltage across the cap when the current is being stuffed in. The regulator is looking at average voltage, so it reduces the output voltage slightly to make the average voltage, including that step, to be the desired output.

Over time, that step gets bigger and bigger. You don't see any symptoms until the step gets big enough to disrupt the circuit.

By the time the system shuts down, damage may have been done.

Had one monitor where the system processor had been fried by the peak voltage. Had 19V spikes on a 5V supply.

In another, there were totem-pole fets driving the transformer for the backlight. One of them had been damaged and had high leakage. The backlight came up and ran for a few seconds until the other fet overheated and blew the fuse.

That's why it's often a good idea to change all the caps at once. If you're lucky, and most are, you caught it before permanent damage was done.

So, back to your problem... Most any fuse of the correct current rating should work for more than three seconds. Yes, the right fuse is best, but fix the circuit first.

Wow! Are you operating a small drive-in multi-media center? :-)

Isn't that chart just for the European fuses? It is interesting none the less...

John :-#)#

(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

ity, too apparently) but the "T" DOES actually stand for: "T = Time. Time Delay or Slow Blow.(Typically open between 100 and 300 ms @ ten times the rated current)"

Thanks everyone for being so helpful, it's always cool to pick the brains o f some guys who know what they're doing :) ps about the shrink wrap, it's n ot a glass fuse, it's a ceramic fuse so the wrapping is still sort of a mys tery I guess. Anyway thanks again I'll keep plugging away at it til I figur e it out

Dave

** Whooah - hold on a mo there.

Q. Who uses European standard fuses ?

A. Everyone does.

Common appliance fuses come in just two sizes: 20x5mm and 6.3x30mm or 3AG. European and Asian makers produce both sizes and dominate the market because of lower cost. In 40 years of buying and using such fuses, I cannot remember seeing a pack labelled "Made in USA"

.... Phil

On this side of the pond we have Cooper/BUSS fuses which say "Made in the USA" in my stock, just got some from Digi-Key.

I think you are in the UK, right Phil?

John :-#)#

(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

** No, Sydney Australia.

Fuses come from either Asia or Europe via Farnell.

... Phil

remember the nice metal and plastic boxes the 5 packs came in from Littlefuse?

.
** Errr - ain't that " LittelFuse ?

Also famous for the " Little Light" ?

( small incandescent lamp mounted on a goose neck with a BNC plug on the end. )

.... Phil

** FFS - I did it too !!

"Littel Light" !!!!!!!!!!

.... Phil

Jeff You mentioned that you have a number of different breakers fitted with clip leads for testing before you install an actual fuse. I hate to repeatedly blow fuses too, but doesn't that increase the time it takes for the circuit to open, thus subjecting the equipment to possible further harm? Lenny

Yep.

Chuckle. That would be like comparing the old screw in electric panel fuse with the more modern circuit breakers. Actually, the magentic circuit breaker is faster than the thermal fuse up to about 2x rated current.

However, it doesn't matter. If the power supply is shorted, blowing the circuit breaker a bit late isn't going to make much difference as the power supply is already fried. Whatever is blown or shorted will probably protect the rest of the circuitry. However, if everything is working correctly, the circuit breaker won't trip so it make no difference how fast or slow it opens.

Where it might get a bit sticky is a fairly low resistance short across the power supply output. That won't draw enough current for a instanteous breaker trip and might cook a few devices or traces between the power supply and the low resistance short. It's a definite risk, which I'll gladly take, because I haven't seem much of that. Most commonly, it has happened when I stupidly install electrolytic caps in backwards, which hopefully will not become chronic or epidemic.

Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

I've probably had a few thousand TV's come in here over the years. (not any more). NAP sets seemed to use circuit breakers a lot. Some other brands I recall that had open B+ fuses smoked and then blew the fuse when a new one was installed for testing. Often wondered why it didn't smoke the first tim e before the first fuse opened. Lenny

According to the ratings you quoted, it is a T3.15AH or 3.15 amp hours with a 250 Volt (AC) input of the fuse. What is the brand and the model number of the TV/Monitor? Having that will enable me to pull up a service manual online and be able to tell you from the service manual.

A fuse is designed to open up for a number of different reasons with safety in mind. Sounds like from what you tell me, there is a short. It could be the horizontal output, a shorted wire, a current limiting resistor, or caps. that could have gone bad, if it wasn't merely a power surge. Monitors use about 3 amps of current on the primary secondary power supply just before rectification.

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