You know you're getting old....

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:17:31 -0800, John Larkin Gave us:

I'm the sanest person ... in the whole lab!

Electronics seems increasingly to be a skill of older people, unless you consider operating an mp3 player to be 'electronics'. You should see the resumes I get! If I wanted to hire a few hundred network administrators and Perl programmers, there'd be no problem.

John

I get tons of resumes from kids straight out of school, even some offering to work for free "to learn". But I can't afford the time to teach them.

Then there's the ads to sub-contract my engineering tasks to India :-(

Hell will freeze over first.

...Jim Thompson

alt.binaries.unruly.schematics.envious

John

"John Larkin" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

be

I've noticed this also. I think it has a little to do with electronics being such a big and complex subject that it needs several years for someone to really get a good grasp of it. I mostly taught my self electricity, and then electronics, starting at the age of about 3. Another problems is the schools tend to only teach theory (engineering), or practical (technicians), generally not both. We tried to change this at the university I teach a couple of labs at, by showing 2nd year engineering students how to design much more complex circuits from simple ones, how to use data sheets and search for information, how to layout a prototype (mostly SMT) PCB with a sharpie magic marker, and then with cad software, and then etch and populate the boards, trouble shooting, etc. The lab was well liked, but it was only 1 semester long, which was way too short for the students very limited knowledge at that time. We eventually gave up with this lab after a few years due to many issues (one of the biggest was the possibility (university politics) of flux fumes causing problems - which was not even an issue with the fume extractors we were using). Most BEng graduates have no idea how to properly use a soldering iron, why there are different types of capacitors, how to make a PCB, etc these days. I believe it takes a good 8 to 20 years of learning to grasp electronics to a high level for most people who are capable. Say 3 - 5 years of schooling, then another 3-5 years of learning practical stuff, then a couple more to learn some of the more advanced things, etc. Then theirs the issue of ever evolving components, uC's and uP's, which after a certain point, they become more of a new tool to use then a new problem to know about.

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 22:46:42 GMT, "Jeff" Gave us:

I don't think kids these days have the aptitude OR the work or learning ethic to do it. One should also already have a heavy interest in the field, not just "what makes good money".

I was building Jacob's ladders at ten, and fixing Selectrics.

A friend of mine told me that he has a tech that doesn't want to make a proto assembly. He says "That's an assembler's job."

We think he might be one of those "zero bench experience" "techs" that do so well in the tech course, but don't really have "the grasp".

In news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com (DarkMatter):

Good money? Where?

Seriously, I won't go into an electronics career, simply because the low pay vs. expenditure and difficulty. I'd rather do manual labor for more than rack my brain for less. :)

On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 00:37:13 -0500, "Mark J." Gave us:

Computers, and admin thereof... definitely better. I never thought as a kid that they guys designing and making the hardware would be making less than the usually total retards using it. They deserve less, we deserve more.

In news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com (DarkMatter):

OMG, are we in agreement? :)

Are design engineers here claiming low pay?

...Jim Thompson

Does anyone claim that they're paid too much?

Of course not, but I'm reading an overtone here that says they're not being paid commensurate with their skills.

However a quick check of recent salary surveys says *not*.

Median salaries of US$80K to US$100K would seem pretty good to me.

But maybe it's the "LED blinkers" who think they're worth more ;-)

...Jim Thompson

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 02:50:52 -0500, "Mark J." Gave us:

Don't get yer bloomers in a bunch.

My late father-in-law (investment banker) did. But he didn't offer to pay it back, I noticed. ;-)

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

In news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com (Jim Thompson):

Of course, when you're designing the blinker IC, that commands much more than the guy who just puts the parts together...

I see want-ads all the time for electronics positions. They go something like this:

Seeking gullible genius for complex electronics assembly/repair. $10/hr, no benefits for first decade. BA required. Must be able to kiss ass well and jump though many hoops without question. Don't call us, we'll call you...

In news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com (DarkMatter):

Heh. I thought it was "Skivies."

Maybe it's the fact that *many* companies require a degree in EE to be considered for other than a technician position?

Hell, can't you make $10/hr flipping burgers?

...Jim Thompson

Exactly, except McDonalds probably commands more than $10/hr nowadays. The question becomes, why should we spend thousands of dollars for a BA in EE just to work a difficult job where we make less than if flipping burgers? :\

Where does an EE get paid less than $10/hr? Where does one get a BA in EE? ...perhaps that's part of the problem?