Anyone for a cardboard PC?

Interesting. Would it pass RF emission standards?

I also notice that in the vertical orientation, the "This Way Up" icon is upside down :-)

Lame.

2) A sheet-metal case is probably the most non-hazardous, easily recycled, environmentally friendly part of a PC.

The Prius-and-hessian-undergarment people who buy products like this don't care about functionality, nor are they susceptible to mere facts.

=== rant follows ===

I know the kind you mean: there are always a few well-intentioned but underinformed greenies about. They can be quite entertaining if you know how to play them. The "leaded petrol is better for the environment" argument is always fun.

However, the preference for form over function is widespread, possibly even endemic:

Consider side windowed computer cases. These are obviously a good idea because they look cool. Who cares about RFI screening? I don't even know what that is so it can't be that important. I've only ever read two issues of PC Noob but neither of them even mention it.

Heatsinks are another area. As we all know the best finish for heat sinks is highly polished chrome. This is because it looks all shiny, hi-tech and new. Since it is the best finish for aesthetic reasons it follows that it must also be the best at radiating heat but in any case this is only a secondary reason for having the heatsink: its primary role is to look big and impressive.

Finally after spending a fortune on our hi-tech heatsink and three times as many fans as are needed, let's piss all our cooling efforts up against the wall. After all we need some lights in there to reflect nicely off all the shiny bits that cost so much and make the machine look cool. Who cares that as surely as night follows day all that light is going to eventually end up as additional heat.

LOL! I don't have any experience with hessian undergarments, but our Prius has been a very functional vehicle averaging about 45MPG, even=20 when carrying a family of four and luggage. We've had it for more than 5 years and it hasn't required a new battery pack or anything other than normal power train maintenance.

Mark Borgerson

You can always follow up with the arguments about the reduction in mileage with increased ETOH in fuels.

DOH! Ferrari, Maserati, and other high-end auto makers have known that for years. If function was everything, we'd all be driving 2CVs!

Have you ever had a problem with RFI? My son has had lan parties where friends brought computers with windows in the cases. I don't think it ever interfered with our TV reception.

I've never see a chromed heat sink. Polished aluminum, yes. Copper, yes. Chrome, no. Since the major heat dissipation mode for these heat sinks is not radiation, but conduction to the air flow, the color of the heat sink is of little consequence. Good air flow and the=20 absence of stagnant boundary layers are much more important.

All the lights I've seen in computer cases are LEDs or CCFLs---perhaps a few Watts. Peanuts when compared to 100+ Watts for a high-end CPU and bridge chips. Add in another 100+ Watts for a high-end video card, and a few lights are not a major part of the heat generation.

Mark Borgerson

Say what you may, fanatics will buy anything. [I am not classing you as a fanatic. I am simply making a statement about the consumption habits of fanatics].

My 6 year old Volvo estate (V70 D5) gives about 40MPG, with family and luggage, and doesn't have a bank of batteries that have to be 'managed' at their end of life.

I'm not having a dig but I wonder overall which is most environmentally friendly?

Nial

On Sep 24, 7:56=A0am, "Nial Stewart"

There's a rather compelling analysis that demonstrates (obviously I have no way of checking the numbers) that a Hummer H2 is more environmentally friendly than a first-generation Prius when you factor in the operating life and environmental impact of the battery pack.

In message , larwe writes

The other "hidden" cost is the pollution caused by generating the electricity to charge the car in the first place... It's not a clear cut as it first seems.

Well, the Prius is charged only from its gas engine.

For pure electric/plug-in hybrids the figure I've seen thrown around is that coal-fired power is roughly 50% the CO2 emission (in kg per km driven) of a straight gasoline engine - again I have no way to verify that number but I'd believe it. Nuke, hydro and wind areas of course are much better.

I wonder if that Volvo is a diesel car. Diesel fuel does have at least

The battery pack in the Prius is 'managed' by the engine control computer system. =20

The first generation Prius hasn't been sold since 2003. Our Prius is either 2nd or third generation---depending on whether you count the version sold only in Japan. Based on my one data point, the operating life of the battery pack is more than 5 years. IIRC, the full replacement warranty is now 8 years or 100,000 miles.

I don't know if there is any data on the environmental impact of the batteries. Toyota recycles all the battery packs, but they haven't been very busy, since very few have been replaced to=20 this point.

Mark Borgerson

It's all rather moot - hybrids are an interim step in solving a problem that is essentially sociological rather than technical.

The choice (assuming we don't develop affordable long-range space travel anytime soon) comes down to reducing population, or living a desperately communal, achingly rationed socialized existence.

Mark Borgerson skrev:

The original engine of the P-51 Mustang was chromed, and the plane suffered from overheated engines. Only with the RR Merlin, the Mustang became legendary.

BR Ulf Samuelsson

The generation of unshielded RFI is actually a 'green' feature. If you want to listen to the radio, it reminds you to turn off the computer.

It is a diesel yes, but it's a 168 bhp engine and I'm sure I like to 'make good progress' more that most Prius owners (more than 98% of the population probably).

The engine was the 'latest' direct injection diesel which I think had a class leading emission rating. It's certainly not the 'oil burner' that previous diesels were.

A quick google shows the Prius to weigh ~1300 kg, the Volvo's ~1700 kg, ie 30% heavier.

Another google shows the 2009 Prius engine to be 110 bhp, I'm sure if the Volvo engine was designed to give lower output the fuel efficiency would be even better. (I think this follows).

Even if they can recyle them 100% there's still the number of battery packs in existance that there are Prius's. What'll happen to these eventually?

Again, not 'argueing', just some points for discussion.

Nial.

On Sep 25, 5:28=A0am, "Nial Stewart"

Recycling aside, the manufacturing process apparently involves lots of environmental damage, starting at the mine and moving down the line. Lots of toxic waste generated.

Wasn't the engine on the Mustang water cooled? If the first engine overheated, I doubt that the chrome plating had much to do with the problem. The problem was more likely due to inadequate coolant flow or radiator capacity. Now, if the radiator was chrome plated, you might have an argument! ;-)

Mark Borgerson

Our Prius certainly performs best when 'making good progress' is impossible. I averaged 56MPG between Seattle and Corvallis on a trip last year. I think I did that well for a couple of reasons: I was the only person in the car, and traffic conditions kept the average speed below 60MPH.

As Volkswagen has shown with the TDI models, a well-designed diesel can get impressive mileage figures.

If you add the 37HP electric motor to the 110HP gas engine, the total available for the Prius MAY be about 147Hp. That would give it about the same hp/weight ratio as the Volvo.

Reducing the weight of the auto and the aerodynamic drag of the Vehicle may be more important. The Prius has a very low drag coefficient.

Recycled---just like the lead-acid batteries in all automobiles? IIRC, they get pulled and recycled before the cars go to the crusher and scrap metal market.

Mark Borgerson