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I'm not judging them. They've got a tough problem keeping the new bulbs co ol in legacy fixtures that try to keep them hot.

My solution would be less power, less light, and more heatsink area.

I think the 5W bulb runs cooler to the touch, but I haven't checked. The 5 W has a smaller heatsink than the 8.5W. That's a shame, but it means they carefully decided how cool they needed to run, and sized the heatsink for t hat.

I expect the electrolytic reservoir cap will be the life-limiter, only 105C rated in the videos I saw.

It still makes sense as-is. The 8.5W bulb is much brighter than the 13W CF L it's replacing tonight. If it only lasts 10K hours it'll save 45kWH in that span, saving ~$5. That's twice what I paid for the bulb.

No advantage to doubling the LED area. They're already on an aluminum-core PCB, nicely tied to a pretty thick Al heatsink. The thermal design is very good within their constraints--spreading the LEDs apart wouldn't help.

Halving the current would chop the output, but the bulb would last forever.

If they'd transplanted a set of 5W guts into the 8.5W heatsink, I probably wouldn't be chopping up beer cans today.

I just put a pair on another 8.5W unit. Shaved 32C off the casing temp. I'm using zip-ties instead of hose clamps during gluing.

They'll run fine as-purchased, maybe even last 15-25K hours. Hard to gripe about that for the price.

I've got places where CFLs won't light in the winter, or if they light, the y're dim and never get warm enough to shine. These will fix that, light instant ly, save energy, and that's pretty fun.

Cheers, James

It *does* drive home how narrow our comfort zone is, doesn't it? :-)

Jeroen Belleman

}snip{

So what do you want to do, lower the lamps or drill a hole in the ceiling? grin

joe

[...]

Hey I thought all you guys were all stocked up on filament lamps?

And they could prise them from your cold, dead hands? :)

--

John Devereux

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OK I guess it depends on what is going to fail. I was thinking the leds were running too hot and having more with less current would allow them all to be a bit cooler. (At the die.) If it's some other component that fails due to the heat. (your suggested Al cap.) Then I agree more leds won't help.

r.

y

(Right.. that's what I was trying to say earlier, a little more cost, but perhaps a lot longer lifetime, and much lower sales for the manufacture r.)

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Yup, good stuff. I'm going to buy some for our bathroom. That's the one p lace I find that cfl's are failing early. (I have two teenagers who like to tak e long steamy showers.) No beer can coolers though.

George H.

Grin.. yup I do have a bunch. They are now mostly in the attic, and my thought is to leave them there and let my kids throw 'em out when I die. :^)

As you probably understand, it's not the new technology that I disliked, but the legislated obsolescence. (I hated the cash for clunkers idea too... sorta similar.)

George H.

Nah, the hammock was great. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs (Back in the lab)

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 

160 North State Road #203 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

hobbs at electrooptical dot net 
http://electrooptical.net

I've had zero LED failures after a couple of years. I've returned some brands of LED lamps for having crap power supplies that buzzed or strobed, but those were defective by design rather than failure.

Of course, whether you like LEDs or incandescent really depends on your weather. I like the radiant warmth of incandescent in the winter but they've got to go during summer.

--
I will not see posts from astraweb, theremailer, dizum, or google 
because they host Usenet flooders.

Joe Hey has a negative loser personality... must be a leftist >:-}

(Or maybe a nom de plume of DecadentLoser :-)

These LED's are in an Arizona ceiling... already hot, by definition, and seem to be doing fine... I even have three in outside entryway fixtures.

Like I said, I bought just a dozen, and I'm watching them. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142     Skype: skypeanalog  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

I have about 200 100W, 1590 lumen bulbs in my supply closet, mostly because I'm very fond of my several Luxo desk lamps (100W incandescent +

22W Circline fluorescent). They're the best task lights I've ever used.

If LEDs wind up being better, I'm perfectly prepared to chuck tungsten. It's seeing that I care about.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 

160 North State Road #203 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

hobbs at electrooptical dot net 
http://electrooptical.net

I have several Ott-Lite's... hard to beat for close-up intense lighting. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142     Skype: skypeanalog  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Exactly some of the things that happened to me. I had no warranty, so the money was lost.

I do like LEDs and they've reduced my power bill considerably.

joe

Just some negative experiences, nothing more. Had many LEDs failing within one year of purchase. And before that CFL by the way.

Yeah right, that's why I've been fighting him 'tooth and nail'. :)

Yes, just keep an eye on them.

joe

Not me. You can't beat halogen for color rendering, but I've had CFLs since years before Al "Diamond Footprint" Gore discovered they existed.

(And I barely use one of those per five years, so I've got several lifetimes' supply.)

Cheers, James Arthur

LEDs are not better for color-rendering. Walmart's 2700K is a little yellow, but fair. The 5000K is icy blue--poor CRI. Halogens are superb.

Cheers, James Arthur

electrolytic caps don't like the cold.

--
  \_(?)_

Particularly cheap ones. CFLs don't like cold, in any case. I've had some that don't like "normal" Winter interior temperatures.

** Typical modern electros are rate to operate from -55C to +105C or -40C to +85C.

Capacitance will vary over that range and the ESR value varies by more than a factor of 10. But the designer can allow for it.

.... Phil

I heard an interview with Elon Musk where he pointed out that there are only 2 US auto makers that haven't gone bankrupt, Ford and Tesla.

I expect your reports of the death of the Musk "empire" are greatly exaggerated.

--

Rick