Smartmeter: Anyone knows how to get detailed info on them?

On a sunny day (Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:52:48 -0700 (PDT)) it happened " snipped-for-privacy@sushi.com" wrote in :

Cracked voting machines too :-)

presumably, a response to my comment: "Why not read it once a *year*? Estimate ALL of the consumption during the summer months (highest rates, typically) and bilk the user accordingly?!"

If that is standard practice, then your tariffs, no doubt, are designed for "year round average usage" -- they aren't opting to charge you "summer rates" for your year round usage just because they *happened* to read the meter in the summer, etc.

Yes, some places I've lived have left "postcards" at the house on which the resident would mark the positions of the dial indicators (they don't trust you to *read* them as alternate decades rotate in opposite directions) and mail it in. They would actually take your word on the reading (presumably, checking that it isn't "outrageous") as they would eventually catch up with you (i.e., if you distort this month's reading as "low", then *next* month they will see the net as *high* (no free lunch)

Why? Do you have some evidence that they're PF sensitive?

You might want to check the accuracy of that "toy" :>

(i.e., with some known loads of various power factors)

Yes, that's what I meant.

Yes, but not quite that specific. If you download the 2-page fact sheet...

The second page shows the full LCD display. The top number field seems to show the elapsed kWh most of the time with the kWh legend displayed. The lower number field is usually combined with one of the two legends to its right. I've seen 246 Volts and 1.01 kW. It also shows Adl with nothing else and the main number still showing the normal kWh number.

The lower-right display shows Delivered with flashing triangle. I assume if I was generating power into the grid this would become Received instead.

Hmm. Looking at the fact sheet right now, maybe Adl is accumulated delivery. Seems maybe at Adl display the Received and/or Delivered legend could be on, indicating what has happened since [some time period].

Yes, from what I have heard the big increase in bills is the most common complaint. I was just reporting what I think I heard about some small number of meters that died (in response to the question).

On TV, in the last couple days, I think I also heard that they are not going to halt distribution of the new meters, but there is an investigation team that will deliver a report around August.

Want to place odds on the results?

Let's see. If they are really diligent now it might fly but they've got so much egg in the face by now that that isn't guaranteed. In America we have relatively direct access to our representatives and that's a wonderful thing. People expect them to put the foot down when something is seriously amiss.

A hearing about a technical problem, broadcast in detail on the evening news, that's pretty bad. I think only Toyota and some investment banks came close to that lately.

Nah, I can almost picture it ;-)

In Californica, particularly in San Fransicko, there's only one question... what will the sphincter stretch factor be ?:-) ...Jim Thompson

^ Most interesting.

Soon they will know if you have a big ass fat girlfriend banging a bit too hard ! ;) :) >=D

And the frequency there-of hehehehehehehehe.

"Jan Panteltje" kirjoitti viestissä:hrab6a$kgr$ snipped-for-privacy@news.albasani.net...

Ah, same way here just read the meter once a year yourself and post it to some form in internet. Self-service is best service or so...

btw. the meter here has been running since 1968. Those old meters are really quite sturdy. Don't mind little lightning and whatever crud long rural lines can generate.

us

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sun.

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installing

Same here. I used to be on flat rate, my bills actually seem to have gone down. Just installed a few months ago.

Much worse where we live, in Northern California. Here we must pay a "small-business-punisher-rate". The millisecond you exceed a rather modest baseline usage the cost per kWh skyrockets. That's why I'd be squarely against estimates because then they can really sock it to you. And probably will. The propane company tried it once, charging us a "minimum usage fee" for zero gallons and then the full amount next month. I ended that practice right in the tracks.

Californica :-)

The year I had my hip replacement my propane company got snotty that I didn't use the minimum... and tried to charge me for it.

I told them, GFY, and put a heat pump on my spa :-) ...Jim Thompson

That's why the only *fair* way of dealing with "estimates" is to average the estimated period into the adjacent "measured" periods. This ends up dinging the utility (on average) for their decision *not* to read the meter (instead of dinging the user)

Some business tariffs are based on "peak demand" (hence, KWh meters called "demand registers"). I.e., what you pay for the billing cycle is based on your *largest* demand *in* that cycle. I.e., a business that is "closed 99% of the time" but, when open (in that remaining 1%) uses a *lot* of electricity pays *more* than a business that uses "half" as much but on a *continuous* (i.e., 100%) basis.

This has led to all sorts of bizarre schemes -- most of which increase the *total* energy used -- to shift the load or average it out. E.g., some firms "make ice" at night (when the business is closed and there is *no* significant energy demand) and then use the ice in lieu of running their ACbrrr's during the following day (when the *added* load of the ACbrrr would dramatically increase their "peak demand").

The goal of the utility (besides making money :> ) is to have a nice *steady* load (since variations in load require power plants that have quick response times -- like coal and gas fired -- which tend to be more expensive to operate).

Grrr... s.b.:

"pays *more* than a business that uses electricity at half that rate but"

It can lead to even more bizarre results: I once spoke to a business owner who couldn't avoid peaks because of the way their machines worked. During a planned outage they rented a big Diesel and found out that their cost for electrical energy _dropped_, even when factoring in the daily costs of the generator.

I'm not surprised. In the early '70's perpetual side-kick technician Jim Foster and I worked up numbers for a VW-engine-driven generator for his cabin out in the boonies... amortized equipment cost plus maintenance plus gasoline (no road tax) yielded about 2¢/kWh, about

If (big if) the charges reflect the marginal costs of the electricity, this isn't bizarre at all. He's doing the peaking rather than forcing the power company to do it.