Smartmeter: Anyone knows how to get detailed info on them?

Try:

Thanks. Not too much meat in there, except two rather scary remarks, quote: "solid-state meter platform" and "Digital Multiplication Measurement Technique".

That can spell trouble if not designed right.

"We don't care. We don't have to. We're the Power Company."

I'm in San Jose. I got the new meter about a month ago, so don't have any feel yet for how it compares to the old one. Other neighborhoods got them much earlier. I haven't heard anything from people I know, just the media stories. I can show you what the PG&E Smart Meter looks like, though.

Here's a link to a zip containing 4 pics of the meter face...

The LCD display cycles through several formats every few seconds. The two 'meter' pics show two of those displays. I was trying to get better pictures of the various display formats, but it started raining, so I ran for cover. The two label pics may have information to lead to more information (FCC ID, for instance) but I haven't tried searching yet.

I assume this is the same one you will get. The cylindrical case is not transparent on the sides, but I would doubt there is anything mechanical in there (like a spining disk).

I'm interested too. Post if you find more information.

I'm vindictive. I think VAT and Cap & Trade are just what the "faithful" deserve.

I think we (those of us on the productive end of the stick) will prevail. If not, I have my escape plan. I would suggest everyone else develop the same. ...Jim Thompson

The Meter2 picture shows all eights in the display, and it looks like the lower 2/3rds of the LCD display is a bit dimmer.

That's what our previous digital meter did and then it croaked ;-)

Thanks, yes, that could help. Although there will generally be no "meat" in the filing papers, no items such as schematics.

Yes, I will.

Saw a good bumper sticker today.

Obamanomics: Trickle up Poverty

Just remember, past a certain age (which you have exceeded ...) NZ requires immigrants to bring a major amount of money into the country. Probably so they have some assurance that the new folks won't plop into the welfare/health system.

How's the gnat problem coming?

They can turn off the power house by house. Disaster in my opinion since computers use software and all software has bugs.

Since I got a smart meter, I've have two power interruptions in I guess 5 months (I don't recall when it got installed). I could go years without a glitch before the meter was installed.

I installed a double conversion UPS. It reports small outages about every 2 months.

I was just hoping it might get a confirmation of "yes, that is the meter" -- from which, you can dig deeper.

There aren't a helluvalot of different ways to go about doing this.

One is to concurrently (potential source of error) "digitize" I & V and "multiply and accumulate". (note, the design may reduce this to one multiply per cycle :< )

Another is to implement a 4Q (?) analog multiplier and sample (and accumulate) the result.

I worked on a meter design that used synchronous VtoF converters to do the sampling and multiplication. Then, just "count" the result. (i.e., the whole DAS can be then be shrunk/integrated)

The *real* problem is meeting environmental tolerances as well as cost and MTBF. The rest is a "high school" project.

Yup. I think with today's loads, it's real easy to make assumptions that can lean one way or the other in terms of favoring the consumer or the producer. :<

It's amazing that old "mechanical" meters were able to get the accuracies htey could over the operating ranges!

The meter can be "configured" (there is usually an "opto-isolated configuration port" on the front of the glass jar) to display any of a variety of parameters measured by the meter.

Some meters will track peak usage (per billing period -- which can be a 10 minute interval), total usage, etc. Usually, there is a two digit (?) display that indicates which "parameter" is being displayed (to the left of the value itself)

Some meters may have large *relays* inside (i.e., to allow the utility to disconnect your service completely without removing the meter).

I already have that covered... did you not notice ?:-)

No time, too busy. And rabbits I must address first :-) ...Jim Thompson

There are some nice application examples from TI around the MSP430F4xxx series where some of these uC are geared towards metering. For some reason I could only get it from TI's Chinese site:

That's just the thing, it isn't a high school project. There are so many error interlocks that have to function. For example, what if someone stands right next to the meter texting on a GSM phone? The EMI issues from those are quite serious. Same with ham radio gear and so on.

I had to unearth a lot of unwanted rectification effects that caused distorted measurements. "I think someone is in the stairway with a BlackBerry or AT&T phone right now" ... "Come on, let's remain serious here" ... "Seriously, go take a look" ... goes to door, peeks outside ... "S..t, you are right! You mean, that's causing it?"

They were designed by the old guard :-)

Look at scopes. Some of the "modern" budget scopes are a real pity when compared to the budget scopes of the 70's or 80's. To the point where they usefulness in practice is questionable.

Yeah, but these didn't exist 25 years ago. :>

I meant the data collection aspects. ToU and Demand are a few lines of code...

Yup. Try designing for the gaming industry! :> There, the "interference" is calculated, deliberate and considerably more that "typical" (e.g., folks sticking antennae *up* the payout chutes)

Yup. Though much of it really is "common sense" -- once someone

No, didn't. Earlier this month you hinted that you might have to just walk away from your home because more is owed than worth, 2nd post from bottom:

Wild rabbits now, too?

Those were the days when we had to do this stuff analog. Although, 20 year ago we did that with DSPs from AD. AD2105 if I remember right, and I think they were under 10 bucks even then. Though for a meter that a lot of dough.

_If_ done right. It would not be cool if due to some glitch all that night time washing, drying and dishwashing would be billed at peak rate.

That's where universities are seriously lacking these days, and kids don't build stuff anymore.

If that's happening at a lot of other places they've really got to put a stop order on installations. That's what someone demanded on TV yesterday, and I think he had a point there.

Some basic information on the meters can be found here...

There is a pdf link for a fact sheet about the I-210+ meter near the bottom of that page. As D Yuniskis mentioned, the utility customer has some options. The changing LCD display reflects these choices. On this meter, the top big display field seems to be the elapsed kWh measurement (mostly). The lower left on this one changes: current kW, voltage, and the letters Adl. I have no idea what Adl means; there is no number on the bottom then, just Adl. When the voltage is displayed on the bottom, the top goes to all 8's with a minus sign. So that 888 thing seems to be just some artifact of the voltage display configuration. There's a little bar graph at the right middle too. It may be a crude differential indication -- power use up or down. Seems the lower left can indicate power direction, like if the customer has solar panels and can pump back power to the grid.

In the above link page, if you select AMR meters from the left column, it takes you to a page of options the utility can choose for phoning home. This meter seems to have the SSL wireless link at the bottom of the page. There is another pdf fact sheet. Seems it uses 900 MHz wireless. Later I may run a wireless sniffer to see if I can find new IPs in the neighborhood.

The gas meter got a new attachment too. The display on that is an old-school set of geared dials, but apparently it has wirless link too.

So, not much information, but a little bit of help about what is in there.

We targeted $30 DM+DL. Which, at the time, didn't seem like a lot. OTOH, when you are pricing things in quantities of 10M, it gets to the point where you're just buying plastic! :>

I suspect current meters are in the $30 - $50 range as they typically also include a radio, etc. Installed (replaced), it's probably $100 - $150.

I suspect they are probably in the "fraction of a percent" accuracy range -- "if all goes well".

I suspect that modern meters are considerably more vulnerable as they *have* communication pathways into them (firmware upgrade, etc.) beyond just the "configuration port". I think this would be great to hack as you *know* there are undoubtedly some serious security flaws there to be exploited.

If *everyone* has a meter, that's a lot of "motivation" :>