Smartmeter: Anyone knows how to get detailed info on them?

Progress Energy already did that around here. They said they were replacing over 1 million meters and that they were going to recycle all the old meters.

The other EE in the company got his picture in the local paper holding that sign in the 4/15 tea party, here.

Jim Thompson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

How patriotic[not]; YOU may "prevail",but the US of A will not,at least not as we ave known it.

Jim Thompson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

If the US falls or turns socialist/communist,then China will eventually take over Australia and NZ. There won't be any US to stop them. Of course,you're probably counting on having passed away by that time...

rd

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The glitches were very short. They were only 1 second on the UPS log, but that is as small as it registers. I was present for one glitch and heard the relay in the UPS click. I don't recall seeing anything flicker. The UPS claims mission critical blah blah blah, so maybe it reacts to very small glitches. It's an optiups true sne double conversion. Loud! Did I mention it is loud?

The only nice thing about smart meters is you don't have the meter reader poking around your back yard. Otherwise, I don't trust them until some independent company claims they are accurate.

KCBS TV has done a few stories on the damn meters. The stories should be on their website.

I wonder what happens if the new gadget completely fails for, err, some mysterious reason... Do you get your electrons for free until they can replace it?

Dave.

ENERGY: Experts hack new power meters Utilities installing networked devices on homes

By ERIC WOLFF Posted: January 10, 2010 9:30 pm

Lee Campbell shows the "smart meter" installed by SDG&E above his regular electric meter at his home in San Diego last Feb. 12. (File photo by Hayne Palmour IV - Staff Photographer) .

As California's utilities roll out millions of "smart meters" in the coming years, they're creating, for the first time, the possibility that the electricity infrastructure could be hacked through a home, security consultants say.

With San Diego Gas & Electric Co. and Southern California Edison installing 7.3 million smart meters ---- upgrading their entire customer base ---- they're essentially attaching small computers to each house, each equipped with wireless communications back to the utilities.

Utilities say they have been hardening the smart meters since they began development, but security consultants say they are worried: If criminals cracked the system, they could remotely install a virus that could shut down power for millions of customers.

The new smart meters will have a host of capabilities: They will credit homeowners who produce their own electricity via solar cells or wind mills, be able to wirelessly communicate data to the utility and let utilities turn off the power remotely, among other functions that could be added.

"Were it telemetry only, then the only compromise is privacy," said Mike Davis, senior security consultant for the security service IOActive. "When you add remote disconnect, then you increase the attractiveness of the meter as a target."

Davis and his team hacked into smart meters last spring as part of a proof-of-concept they showed off at a Las Vegas security conference last summer.

They reverse engineered meters they bought on eBay and found in trash bins near installation sites. Then they installed a computer virus that would replicate itself across the wireless network and block the utility from each meter as it went.

Representatives from Edison and SDG&E said that the demonstration didn't change their work at all; that they've been working on security since they started development three years ago.

But Davis noted that utilities now require secure recycling of old meters, and eBay won't allow that sort of gear to be sold on the site any longer. Davis said they have done such a good job keeping the meters out of his hands that he hasn't hacked the most recent meters because he can't find one through legal means.

The demonstration may have also driven the federal government to create standards for smart meters in the previously unregulated smart meter arena. The National Institute of Standards and Technology, a branch of the Department of Commerce, released a draft of standards in September.

"Our security complies with the emerging smart grid standards in NIST," said Paula Campbell, director of the Edison Smart Connect Program. "There's unique encryption, all designed with the goal in mind of minimizing the vulnerabilities."

The encryption would apply primarily to over-the-air communications from the devices. In theory, a criminal could sit in a car up to a mile away from a site and attempt to hack the WiFi signal of the devices.

Baker said that would be pretty hard.

"It's called security in depth," Baker said. "The old technology is there's one key that could open every door in the neighborhood. In the systems employed today, you need a different key for every room in your house."

Alternatively, a hacker could just try to wire directly into a meter.

All the devices will include a detector that sends an alert to the utility if the meter is shaken, removed or even if the front cover is taken off.

"How you respond to that, isolate that, control that in an organized fashion, it's part of our overall security program," said Chris Baker, chief information officer for SDG&E.

Davis, though, said he thinks the utilities are just buying a product, and it's the manufacturers who are rushing to market.

Itron Inc., the Washington-based supplier of smart meters to both Edison and SDG&E, pooh-poohed Davis' demonstration this summer.

"We believe our implementation is very secure and cannot be subjected to the kind of attacks shown by IOActive in their demonstration of unsecured equipment," company spokeswoman Kim Papich said in an e- mailed statement.

In a separate statement, Itron said it hired outside companies to test their systems. Both SDG&E and Edison said they also had contracted with third parties to conduct "penetration tests," in which security professionals search for holes in the security.

Davis said he is pleased that there is third-party testing, but he is still worried about creating a monoculture of devices. Because all the smart meters installed by SDG&E and Edison will be made by the same company and use the same software, they're only as strong or as weak as any one unit.

"If the attacker finds the vulnerability in one, the entire network is vulnerable," he said. "That's a catastrophic failure."

From bits of information I have heard in the media about California PG&E complaints, some of the meters have failed to record and the PG&E solution is to estimate the bill from previous history. I don't have any confirmation link to cite.

Q concerning those old meters; they have been around for like ages. Are they so reliable that they never show up in surplus shops or does Piggie sledgehammer them?

From the pictures in that article and mention of the meter vendor, I see that San Diego is using different meters from Northern California utilities.

I guess that's a good thing?

On a sunny day (Wed, 28 Apr 2010 15:56:34 +1000) it happened "David L. Jones" wrote in :

I dunno, but I have been calculating... It is still not economical, but for 1000 Euro I have a good 2 kW generator... With all that modern 'electronic' grid stuff coming... Any kid with a PC and a wireless board can take out a countries electricity. A generator is good thing to have:-) Those meters are not here yet, There is a law being proposed that people can refuse to have those.

Seems like Germany already has such a law. Are these laws motivated by privacy issues or more mundane concerns about accuracy or whatever?

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

You misunderstood Obama's statement: What he said was he wants to bankrupt the american people.

And then taxes will rise, so that Obama's socialist adjenda can be played out, giving your wealth (as megar is it is...) to others who don't want to put in the effort.

One thing is important... The old saying "He who does not know history is doomed to repeat it" applies here.

On a sunny day (Wed, 28 Apr 2010 07:14:24 -0400) it happened Spehro Pefhany wrote in :

I dunno, I never was much into 'action groups'. But in my view what business is it to the power company what I use the power for? I mean they will have fridges and what not that 'report back'. Some marihuana plant growers were caught by their funny huge electricity bills, some by flying with an IR equipped helicopter over the city to look for 'hot spots' (where the lights for the plants were), but hey, Al Quada does it have an exceptional power consumption ;-) ;-) ??? So, I pay for the power, it is mine to do with it how and when I like. I had a car running on LPG, maybe a Honda generator can be modified to run from the local gas pipes?

In this link I see a rendering that looks like an electrolytic in the base assembly:

I hope I am wrong about that ...

The question would be, artifact because the SW guy forgot, folks in the design review didn't notice or because it fell through the cracks when writing the spec sheet?

Thanks. Piece by piece is the only way to figure this stuff out. Maybe one day a schematic leaks out somewhere. Not to hack anything but to understand how they work, and to be prepared in case of gross overcharges.

But there were people who claimed the bill was 3x the previous year's or more. That can't be an estimate. Also, on the bill it should clearly say "estimated".

I've never heard of one breaking. Only electronic ones that broke. Also, they'd have to somehow leak out of the utility's materials management system to end up in surplus stores.

PeterD wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Are you a fan of Victor Davis Hanson? [I am.] He's a historian who posts opinion pieces on townhall.com and National Review.com. a good read.