RoHS AKA Woah, Hoss!

Hunh? *Everybody* notices them. They are virtually 100% recycled, and don't end up in landfills, unlike electronics. Small SLA batteries (as used in alarm systems, emergency lighting, toys etc.) are another matter.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

It's a four-year deferral, not an exemption, for comm infrastructure equipment, no?

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

Wait for the first round of comms/networking and military product producers who claim to have solved the problems. Then the exemption will fall.

Rene

work

Not sure. In fact *all* the 'exemptions' are in effect deferrals since it's taken as read that they will in due course be reviewed AIUI. I fail to see how reliability can be improved by a 4 yr delay though ! ;~)

Graham

Unfortunately it is not going to "be a lot like SMT". There are still a lot of problems that _large_ manufacturers have not solved. The tin whisker problem is very intractable.

Note that China is enacting similar legislation, this is not just the EU.

Although a number of areas are exempt, it is becoming more difficult to get components with leaded finishes. AIUI the US military are working on converting Pb-free parts back to leaded for reliability reasons. Try and find DDR2 memory with leaded finish.

The point made by another poster that the amount of lead in electronics is minute, while the energy required for the lead-free processes goes up around

High volume manufacturers of things like cellphones don't care about long term reliability, almost the reverse, they want you to change your phone every year.

Regards Ian

On 28 May 2006 07:04:27 -0700, " snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com" Gave us:

It is illegal to put lead acid batteries in a land fill all over the world already, you daft dipshit.

On Sun, 28 May 2006 10:34:38 -0400, Spehro Pefhany Gave us:

The part you don't get though is that it does NOT matter if a tin/lead soldered electronic device ends up in a land fill. Metallic form lead is simply not a problem. If it were, the water tables anywhere near the many hundreds of police firing ranges would be contaminated, and they are not. We would also have seen contamination in and around landfills as well, since we have been dumping electronic assemblies into them for decades now... literally.

Case closed. Metallic form lead poses no threat.

On Sun, 28 May 2006 10:35:59 -0400, Spehro Pefhany Gave us:

Trust me, military equipment HAS an EXEMPTION, and it is for more than just comm gear.

On Sun, 28 May 2006 17:07:26 +0200, Rene Tschaggelar Gave us:

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That is a stupid remark. The scientists and engineers went for and got that exemption because it would cost BILLIONS to comply with it.

It will NEVER happen, and the reason will never change.

That is aside from the FACT that tin/lead soldering is STILL the owner of the highest reliability stats, and will remain so.

There were lots of problems with microcracking in high volume SMT ceramic caps, as well as the usual solder paste coverage issues and tombstoning (saw some of that last week on a couple of 0402 parts). And all that expensive new equipment, and all those new fussy processes. Parts were more expensive, some just never made the transition to SMT (eg. some film caps). There was plenty of bitching and whining in the early days, when the Japanese were way ahead. On the plus side, there was also a lot of proactive information sharing to deal with the challenge.

Yes, and reportedly China will eschew the exemptions/deferrals. Japan's compliance has been voluntary so far, AFAIUI.

They're certainly not going to make two versions of most components, but for prototypes anyway leaded solder works fine with RoHS compliant parts. Have you heard of any issues with production?

So what? 20% of what? Sounds like a particularly lame excuse to me. If energy was such a big concern, solder wouldn't be used in the first place. Preheating to 100°C probably uses more power than the actual soldering, at least that was my recollection with the equipment I set up some years ago. Most of the stuff isn't made 'here' in the West either, but the products are shipped here and disposed of here.

Exactly the kind of electronics wot gets tossed in the garbage can regularly. I regularly see bits of electronics all over the place on the street, broken headphones, bits of MP3 players etc. etc.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

On Sun, 28 May 2006 18:06:52 +0100, "Ian" Gave us:

That what "features" are for. Folks *WANT* a new phone. Especially the rich "gotta have the hottest thing" idiots.

I never thought I would be out snooping for open WLAN connections, (that's just not who I am) but after purchasing my PSP, and since I ride a bus 35 miles to work through a college campus... I have found that it is one of the most enjoyable activities on the bus. I also now feel that it is quite harmless when no foul intentions are included.

taken as

reliability

By solving the underling technical problems.

Rene

work

taken as

reliability

Presumably they'll have worked through the problems by then, of course. It's the pioneers who end up with arrows in their backs.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

On Sun, 28 May 2006 15:20:33 -0400, Spehro Pefhany Gave us:

work

taken as

reliability

RoHS is NOT a "pioneering" effort. It is one of manipulation. Nothing more.

work

Hey, they said the same thing about crimping every lead under the PCB before soldering it. Holding parts on with solder was "bad engineering practice". Those guys are mostly dead or retired by now, and the world moves on.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

Ditto....

Most of you arguing the virtues of lead free are just trying to tell us all the sky is green. You are just arguing to argue. Were these processes really any good, they would have become the "norm" in an open market.

Lead Free part DO fall off. If you process them with lead based solder in assemblies that have both kinds of parts, they don't wet correctly under older profiles. Lesser issues appear with complete lead free assemblies in this area, but using MORE energy and EXPENSIVE equipment, they may be resolved to some extent. But in the end, current alloys used will never EQUAL tin/lead.

Can leadfree processes be optimized? Yes. but the equipment and costs and energy usage and such are going to cost BILLIONS. Will all the problems be solved. Perhaps, BUT NOT WITH ANY CURRENT LEAD FREE SOLDER RECIPES. Will the solution ever be cost effevtive when compared to what we had with lead? No.

When you consider lead usage was NEVER AN ISSUE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, the arguement just becomes stupid. Rene, Spehro, Nico, try arguing that lead in electronics was a hazard to begin with. Tell me where this was ever found to be true, where this data is, what it was based on. You HAVE TO ANSWER THESE FIRST, because otherwise, why the HECK would it make any sense to change in the first place???

On Sun, 28 May 2006 15:45:11 -0400, Spehro Pefhany Gave us:

It is all about setting.

Solder creep was and still IS a problem on space launch assemblies. That is why very small minimal amounts of solder are used on NASA certified assemblies, and large, blobby solder joints are nix.

Components could literally be torn from a PCB breaking the cohesive bond of the lead to the solder joint. Crimping made that requisite force much higher. In such a setting, holding the part on with ONLY the solder was a risk of breaking a connection, rendering a circuit nothing more than a pile of well manipulated but useless silicon and plastic. A circuit is not a circuit unless all elements thereof remain correctly attached to each other.

In commercial products, crimping is considered a bad thing as serviceability goes right out the window. It is easy to tear out a plated through hole (on a cheaper, commercial PCB fab) when removing a part with tweaked leads. It is very hard to tear up a plated thru hole during a servicing with a properly formed lead which is perpendicular to the PCB, even for a poor solderer.

I still see assembly idiots tweaking leads though. What they need is technique training. If I can stuff and solder 6000 connections a day WITHOUT tweaking a single lead, any monkey should be able to as well.

So, all you f***in' monkeys get your shit straight.

"Spehro Pefhany" schreef in bericht news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Not to mention the energy the final product will consume during it's entire life...

On Sun, 28 May 2006 16:50:05 -0400, Spehro Pefhany Gave us:

Like I said. MANIPULATIVE BULLSHIT!