Re: Liability & responsibility of electrician?

Guess you don't have much experience living in rural areas either. There are many places that have no electrical code whatsoever.

I believe the standard electrical code is in effect, as a minimum, everywhere in Canada and the USA. Some areas have standards that excede the standard code, and in some areas there is little or no enforcement - making the law toothless - but still law.

There are areas with NO zoning, and no permits required. There are likely still areas where trade licencing is not mandatory. Code still applies. Enforcement likely only by the courts in case of death or financial loss if something goes wrong.

You believe incorrectly.

And in many areas, the Code has *not* been adopted by local ordinance and therefore is not law.

Code applies *only* if it has been adopted as law by the relevant jurisdiction.

and=20

And you just made a legal error. The NEC is adopted nationally (in the US), and amended by some silly states (e.g. California), and also adopted on a state by state basis (not all states) where they are not silly enough to try amending it.

Are they amendments or addendums?

Sorry, don't believe that. Got a cite?

Got a clue? The NEC was created by large insurance companies, soon after the electrification of the United States started. There was little information, and no testing of hardware, or methods. The NFPA set the first fire safety standards. The NEC soon followed. The NFPA publishes the NEC.

If your wiring doesn't meet their requirements, the insurance doesn't pay off. Local code can be tighter than the NEC, but not ignore any aspect of it. If a town has lower standards, there is no insurance available. That means no one will loan money to buy, build or remodel existing buildings. Soon, the town is dead, because businesses can't afford to stay in business without insurance.

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in news: snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net:

little

the

publishes

doesn't

remodel

can't

Mike, it's not true that the NEC has been universally adopted. Just as is the case with life safety/fire codes, there are at least two major electrical standards, and neither is legally binding. They are guidelines which _most_ authorities adopt, either explicitly or by reference into local ordinances. But not all states or municipalities follow them. Some states and cities have written their own codes from scratch. They may cover the same subject matter as NEC, but don't depend upon it.

Also, there's no legal basis for "local codes can be tighter than NEC, but not ignore any aspect of it." The NEC and it's similar "sister" standards are not laws.

If your building passes local and/or state code requirements, and you are issued a CO on the basis of passing those inspections, you can insure a structure.

LLoyd

I understand that. The claim was that "The NEC is adopted nationally in the US". And I don't believe that.

Please provide just *one* cite showing that has *ever* happened *anywhere* in the U.S.

Not true. Any local jurisdiction can adopt any portion of the NEC as law, or decline to adopt it, as it pleases.

Bulls**t. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. I lived thirteen years in a rural area of Indiana that had *no* Code, *no* permits, *no* inspections, and *no* licensing. And I had *no* problems getting insurance for my home.

In the future, please confine your comments to areas in which you actually know something. This is not one of them.

Haven't you heard? Rural areas don't count for anything. Ask either coast.

A huge barn on a horse farm near here burnt to the ground and killed a lot of horses. They got almost nothing from their insurance when the investigation found substandard wiring. So what if it was never inspected, no permits. there was a major loss to the owners. When they wanted to rebuild, there were permits to be pulled, inspections done, and the structure had to have a sprinkler system, as well.

Just because you did something decades ago doesn't mean that it's legal, today.

You could use knob & tube in rural structures a lot longer than in cities, but that didn't make it a good idea.

At one time the thought was that a farmer wouldn't do something to risk his income. Turns out, they were wrong.

Complete evasion of the points I raised is noted.

No location + no date = no proof.

And just because you imagine something, doesn't mean it's true. Fact is, you don't have any idea what you're talking about. You're just making stuff up, or repeating something you were told by a friend of a friend. If you can produce cites proving that:

- the NEC has been adopted nationwide in the U.S.

- local jurisdictions are required to adopt the NEC in its entirety

- any insurance company anywhere ever refused to pay off a fire claim due to unpermitted or unlicensed electrical work

- any property owner anywhere in the United States has been unable to obtain homeowner's insurance because the town in which he lives has not fully adopted the NEC then I'll retract that statement, admit I was wrong and you were right, and apologize. Until then, I stand behind my statement that you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

in

Ok, you win. You can crawl back up Ed's ass. You aren't worth talking to.

I've seen this from you before. It's Michael Terrell shorthand for "I can't back up my claims and I know it."

I'm disappointed.

But not surprised.

insurance

actually

or

produce

adopted

I just had oral surgery, and I just don't give a damn right now. I'm in pain, and drooling blood.

Quote correct post dot calm.

And I... *I* AM SCORPIUS!

I guess that means you don't have a cite.

DimBulb doesn't have a brain.

Take some Midol. :)