OT Hydrogen economy, not?

Heh heh, once upon a time Dad made some habanero salsa. Good stuff, really sweet. And you'll die if you stop eating it and let your mouth warm up!

Tim

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Environmentalists were for biofuels NOT made from food stocks, most were posting messages to groups like this years ago to the effect :

" If you took all the oil producing crops in the USA it would not be enough for even current consumption".

It's agribusiness and the government looking for some magic bullet to do it all, most greenies support using a mix of resources, new technology and conservation, eg wind, solar, hydro and biofuels from waste and none food crops grown on marginal land. Anyone who has been involved in Biofuels for more than a month knows corn is a piss poor crop for ethanol production....

snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com:

I didn't. But HFCS is almost ubiquitous, as opposed to cane sugar. Adding increasing amounts of *any* sugar to foods across the board is bad.

There are certain facts about carbohydrates, and how they are digested and interact with the body, which show that simple carbohydrates should not be consumed in large quantities.

It's irresponsible to dismiss those facts as someo sort of "anti carb" mania.

Not "remaining" hungry, but yes, simple carbohydrates are converted very rapidly by the body into simple sugars that,yes, *do* stimulate a burst of insulin. So people feel hungry again *sooner*. If people consume large quantities of simple carbs over a period of years, most especially in conjunction with other poor/low-nutritional-value eating habits, it

*does* put additional stress on the pancreas, and *does* very often lead to Type II diabetes.

Huh??? There is evidence suggesting that HFCS interferes with the proper release of leptin, the hormone that triggers the "full tank" signal in the brain.

I don't know what you mean with the cake phrse, but it's been shown that people feel satiated for longer when they eat a high-protein meal, as opposed to *either* a high-fat or high-carb meal.

Also, when people say "carbs", what they usually shoudl be saying is "simple carbohydrates", i.e. short-chain carbohydrates, as opposed to complex (long-chain) carbohydtrates. The shorter/simpler the molecule, the more rapidly the body converts the carbohydrate to simple sugars. That's a biochemical fact. Simple carbs include potatoes, pasta and other items made from refined (white) flour, and the biggest proportion of what's in a kernel of corn.

There is a difference between people who say "No Simple Carbs", and the FACT that a healthy diet is a balanced diet.

Unnecessary sugars (regardless of type) added into anything and everything is *not* healthy.

A healthy diet can of course include sausage. But it also includes vegetables of all colors and varieties, a variety of different legumes, whole grains (meaning, that have not had all of the hull, with its fiberand nutrients, stripped off), and a variety of protein sources, including lean meat, milk/cheese, poultry, fish, and vegetable combinations (such as, Brown Rice and Lentil Pilaf, Spanikopita, spinach with mushrooms, and so on, and on, and on), fruit in season.

If you have sausage subs today, then tomorrow, have baked or pan-cooked plain salmon with steamed or *lightly* sauteed (in olive or walnut oil) vegetables, such as a blend of zucchini, yellow squash, diced carrots, and canellini (white kidney beans) lightly sauteed with fresh basil, a bit of pepper, a *bit* of salt, and a pinch each of oregano, sage, and thyme in virgin olive oil (I like Monini Fruttato, very flavorful), with some diced drained fresh tomato thrown in during the last couple minutes

- *yuuummmmm*.

All of this *used* to be called "simple common sense", back when I was a kid. These days, it's treated like some obtuse mystical secret :p

"All things in moderation."

I never heard any activ centenarian say they got to be 100+ by living on watercress and dry flaxseed. Living on that, who'd *want* to live to

100... OTOH, sme watercress in a salad of leafy greens with veggies and cukes is good. ANd flaxseeds can be good in some things.

"All things in moderation."

The problem is that adding increasing amounts of unnecessary sugars is not moderation. Moderation is being able to *control* one' sconsumption of sugars, and try to restict simple sugars/starches to being an occasional treat, *not* an every-day staple.

If you live on nothing but fast-food mega-meals with extra mayo and extra "cheese" (in quotes because they use processed "cheese product"), and complete with sugary sweets, yeah, you prob. will be very overweight, and not particularly healthy. **BUT**, that doesn't mean that nobody should ever eat fast food. Hey, I like my Popeye's Spicy chicken with CHeddar Poppers and spicy fries and red beans'n'rice on the side. I also only get it maybe once every few months.

All I can say is that sausage, or suasage on a whole-grain tortilla, doesn't make me go hypoglycemic, but if I ate coffee and sugar-glazed donuts for breakfast at 7AM, by 10AM I would literally be passed out on the floor sweating and shaking...

"Vaughn Simon" wrote in news:Ti0hk.252706$ snipped-for-privacy@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

The thing is that, if I have this stright, the US policy is that, if you come out of the ocean and set you foot (literally) on dry US land, you're automatically accepted into the US, but if ther eis an intermediary (such as your cruise ship), it's "adios". I guess it's a way of rewarding the travails of the crossing, but that's just a guess on my part...

I do think it's stupid to be X-billion (or is it X-trillion now?) dollars in debt to China (so as to fund the Iraq thing), yet stomp on Cuba, esp. since there is no Soviet Union any more, and hell, don't we trade with North Viet Nam?, plus, Castro is pretty much out of office (isn't he as old as the hills by now?)

IMO, it's just a Habit. I remember th eBerlin Wal going up, but even I think it's a recidivist policy.

James Arthur wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com:

[edited]

Oh Good Grief =>:-p You did snip - the POINT, which you obviously didn't grasp, wasn't the snip, it was that the comment replied to that which was snipped.

And I talked about things which related. Which you obviously could not see were related.

I didn't imply, I said outright, and explained it.

That's obvious.

OK.

Look, the Netherlands' use of district heating won't work in a lot of places in the US. But it *would* work in some areas. Yet we don't use it anywhere that I've found. It doesn't have to be a nuclear plant. We have two oil burning plants that were converted to gas right here in my town within the city limits. When operating, these steam plants produce about 1800 MWe and about 3000 MWth 'waste heat'. Where does all the 'waste' heat go? Into Lake Ontario. Why? Mostly because the company isn't interested in anything but MW-hr production.

Could the University campus, that is adjacent to the plant property use it for heating the six or eight months of the year when temperatures drop? Considering the university already has a lot of heat piping from building to building, the conversion couldn't be *that* expensive. But nope. They burn NG instead.

They (politicians) are talking about pumping Lake Ontario water almost 50 miles to Syracuse to provide downtown with some 'cool lake water' for use in 'district A/C systems' for the summer months. But the A/C season is only about 2 months long while the heating season is about 10 months. Does

*that* sound smart?

I know that many areas couldn't use enough 'district heating' to make it worthwhile. Florida, Gulf Coast, west coast don't have enough of a heating season to even talk about it. And in some parts of the country a 'country mile' is just the distance you go to borrow a cup of sugar from the neighbor.

But you're guilty of the same 'tiny view of the world' if you think the entire US is all the same. There are several places in the northeast where a few thousand MW of waste heat are being dumped all winter long, within 50 miles of a large city.

daestrom

Er, an article in last Friday's Seattle Times, sourced from the AP, said that there are 4,296 megawatts installed in Texas alone, and a map shows that Washington, California, Colorado, Minnesota, and Iowa all have more than 1000 megawatts installed. And there are plans in Texas for 18,000 megawatts. And the power lines to carry it.

Nope. Psychology and Political Science. (One trip out to the University of Washington main library, I searched the stacks for his thesis, but it wasn't there).

Mark Zenier snipped-for-privacy@eskimo.com Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

What 'drag'? The extraction steam doesn't cause 'drag', it just doesn't get to flow through the last few stages and create work in the turbine. Turbine output goes down to be sure. If a lot is extracted, the later stages can be smaller as well. The last stages of turbines can be huge and that is one of the big problem areas. Maybe more extraction (if it can be sold for $) could lessen these problems.

Well, if you want to do it half-assed I suppose. Most LST (Large Steam Turbines) don't have 'controlled extraction' but rather 'uncontrolled extraction'. That means the amount of steam that is diverted out the extraction line instead of flowing through following stages is determined by the back-pressure in the extraction line and the piping arrangement. Downstream stages of the turbine are sized expecting that some of the initial steam entering the turbine will not make it to the later stages. So to use extraction steam to the most effective level would require a turbine rotor change.

Not a great backfit, but could easily be accomodated in initial construction.

In some circles we call that a 'reboiler' or 'clean steam reboiler'. Not at all hard to do. And yes, it would be appropriate to use one for supplying district steam for a couple of reasons not the least of which would be to separate returning condensate from the rest of the steam plant. It would be better *not* to use primary coolant as that water is too hot. Better to use extraction steam or intermediate condensate (after heating) so the temperature difference between heating fluid and reboiler steam is smaller.

daestrom

We are getting some legendary thread drift here, but yes, I believe you have that right. It is called the "wet foot/dry foot policy". The helluvit is, these particular Cubans did not seem to be making for the US, at least not directly. We believe that Mexico was their immediate goal.

The basic policy towards Cuba has been maintained by both US political parties over the decades because the Cuban-American community wants it that way, and they vote.

Vaughn

Another question is whether either figured out that Mr. Clinton's 8 gallons of ethanol for 7 gallons of gasoline [1] is no bargain. Gasoline yields 132 MJ / gal.; ethanol only 89 MJ / gal.

But then Mr. Clinton made it clear he was expecting a technological breakthrough, so he may have wanted to get things rolling to be ready for that.

Cheers, James Arthur

[1]

But what to do about it, now that we're committed ?

(Keeping in mind that farm collectives across the country have poured their savings into building corn-ethanol plants...)

Any suggestions?

Cheers, James Arthur

Yeah, keep away from sweet corn on the cob. Most people don't realize that it's *full* of the stuff.

Mothers are especially bad in that respect.

John

Welcome them to the Asylum? That's where the committed end up. They should have looked at the math first, I remember converting my first ICE to alcohol back in the early 70's via information in the Mother Earth news even then yields per acre were well known.

Probably more.

John

Sigh. If you had read my other posts about waste steam in this thread you would have seen two examples: One in Alaska, the other in Ohio, which are still in the US the, last time I checked.

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sheep.

Ah, let 'em crash. That works, avoids the moral hazard problem. Wipes out lots of farmers, likely.

OTOH, Congress enticed / begged them to do this. That kinda sucks.

Maybe the cellulosic stuff will emerge and save the farmers, their plants, and the day.

What are its current costs / yields ? Environmental impact ?

Cheers, James Arthur

Making HFCS from corn is done thus, using enzymes:

1. Turn corn starch into ordinary corn syrup.
2. Turn 55% of the glucose in the corn syrup into fructose.

- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)

Ooh, fructose, bad stuff.

John

John Larkin wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Well, corn *is* very high in simple sugars. As I said in th esnipped portion, "All things in moderation". One or two ears of corn isn't going to kill anyone, but it's not veryhealthy if the only vegetable one *ever* eats is corn.

If they fall ofr the hype, and give in every single time the children whine that they want something sweet, yeah, that's true.

I have a friend who teaches in a soemwhat "inner city" elementary school, and *if* the kids are sent to school with breakfast, it's most typically something like coffee and donuts, because the parent(s) doesn't know any better - having a kid doesn't instantly instill the wisdom of the ages into anyone. That's why outreach programs are important: to help parents.