OT Hydrogen economy, not?

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Yes, noted. But Al Gore did this thing, not the farm lobby.

He's been shrieking for years that alternative energy is being suppressed, isn't getting enough funding, is a critical emergency for the planet, accusing his political opponents of being complicit or responsible.

Al Gore wanted us to triple our use of biofuels, he pushed it, and that's exactly what we've done, from 3e6 to 9e6 gallons of ethanol per annum from then to now, mandated by Congress per his vision, at his insistence and persistence.

Farm collectives across America have literally bet their farms building ethanol plants based on the policies Al Gore propounded, based on Al Gore's recommendations for saving the planet.

Too bad he advocated so vociferously never having bothered to do the math.

And, mark my words: this is a bubble (corn-based ethanol), uneconomic, unsustainable, and many farmers will be ruined when it bursts a few years on.

Not to mention inflation, shock to the economy, and the calamity higher prices and scarcer food present to the world's poor.

All because our Nobel prize-winning calamitologist Al Gore skipped some basic arithmetic.

Fortunately everything else that Al Gore says is carefully checked and true.

Best regards, James Arthur

Reply to
James Arthur
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Yep. With the added bonus of toxic chemicals. Also, many landfill sites have been landscaped and used for development. Some also lack the space to install a full size recycling machinery (shredder) and will require trucking the waste to a plant. It can be done, but it's not easy or NIMBY proof.

Landfill mining has been around since 1953:

Incidentally, I got my start in electronics by dumpster diving for parts behind TV and electronic stores. At the time, it was called "stupid kids". Later, it became "attractive nuisance" and "liability problem". Then, it became "garbage theft" because once in the city owned dumpster, it was property of the city. Today, it's "creative recycling". Progress, I guess. Incidentally, my house is partly furnished with furniture that I (illegally) salvaged from the local dump.

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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

there was an article in 'Mother Earth news' at least 30 years ago that detailed what a pig farmer built to to the same thing with pig crap. A large digester tank to let the crap decay, a modified internal cobsution enegine to drive a generator, and he had more power than he needed to run his farm. At that time the utility refuse to buy his excess.

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

The local landfill is being used for the methane.

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Rich is still trying to win the 'Darwin Award'. :(

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Does good in so many ways...

  1. Removes smell
  2. "Free" energy
  3. When burnt, it turns into CO2, witch is a much less potent greenhouse gas than Methane.
  4. Noo need for transport
  5. Less local pollution
  6. A product that can be sold.
7.May potentialy be shipped by pipes
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Trygve Lillefosse
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Reply to
Trygve Lillefosse

ITYM John Shuttleworth who was the founder, publisher, and editor of the magazine.

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Reply to
Morris Dovey

I have an 2001 MB E200 Diesel that is getting a mix of kerosene and diesel. It used to run on biodiesel but supplyer went belly up. It also get the odd liter or two of pure vegetabile oil.

It has run 535.000 Km, even though most of them were done as a taxi.:-) I try not to use it more than nessesary.

Anyway, exept for some rust (That model is known to rust a lot) and a bit "hard" running engine, it is realy-realy good. And it only sipps diesel- Almost like a ballerina beeing offered cake.

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Trygve Lillefosse
AKA - Malawi, The Fisher King
Reply to
Trygve Lillefosse

Melis... Melis... why does that name ring a bell...?

Oh yeah...Google Melis: UC Berkeley professor: hydrogen from algae

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"In the fall of 2001, the company built a bioreactor containing 500 liters of water and algae that can produce up to 1 liter of hydrogen per hour."

Nice.

==> 500 L reactor : 24 L/day hydrogen ==> 0.048 vol H2 produced per day / vol reactor (higher is better)

Compare Melis' above, secret, patent-pending project with a common off- the-shelf cow manure to methane project:

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352,000 gallon total reactor volume; 11,500 gal slurry produced per day; 58,900 cu ft per day of gas (440,600 gallons gas per day)

==> 440,600 : 352,000 gal ==> 1.25 vol gas produced per day / vol reactor (higher is better)

Granted, cow poo gas is about 1/2 carbon dioxide, and methane is not the same as hydrogen (I'm lazy, someone else can derive the enthalpy of combustion)... but an order of magnitude difference... now come on...

Michael

Reply to
mrdarrett

I don't remember. The magazines were at my mother's home when she died, and were tossed before I got there. She had a lifetime subscription, from early on.

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Michael A. Terrell

Kris Krieger wrote in news:3tmdnZdyN4VgZh3VnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.com:

the refuse should have been processed BEFORE they buried it in the ground. separate out the metals,the plastics,burn the combustibles(producing steam and electricity) and only bury the leftover ashes,if they can't be used in roadway construction like coal ash is used.

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Reply to
Jim Yanik

James Arthur wrote in news:4F7gk.26$5Q.4@trnddc06:

then he could have started his own company and become rich while helping the US and the environment.He would easily get investors if he had any practical technology. BUT,he wants the taxpayers to pay for it through Big Government.

(has AlGore ever run any private business of his own?)

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Reply to
Jim Yanik

innews:3tmdnZdyN4VgZh3VnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.com:

I did research with a professor converting polyethylene to crude oil over a zeolite catalyst at ~400 C, and thought that (pyrolysis) was the best thing since sliced bread... but imagine if a stray bit of PVC were to infiltrate the high-temperature process... instant hydrochloric acid in the exhaust air stream... the Air Resources Board frowns on that kind of thing...

Michael

Reply to
mrdarrett

been

ads me to

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en, no

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ties of

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=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Mike

Now you tell us.

I was bonking and found some old engine oil. It tasted like crap, and I didn't even feel better.

Reply to
Simon S Aysdie

Oh fine, I've gotten nothing but abuse for this post, completely undeserved.

How 'bout YOU draft a pithy, ironic gibe at the hydrogen economy, fuzzy thinking, biofuels, carbon-phobia, and gluttony in ten words or less, eh?

Please include carbon and hydrogen in your answer.

And no smiley-faces either--that's uncouth.

Cheers, James Arthur

Reply to
James Arthur

Are you kidding? Algor has never been anything more than a used-car-salesman level of con man.

...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
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           Al Gore is the Pied Piper of "Climate Change"
                    Soothing you with Bull Shit
           While quietly sucking the IQ out of your head
Reply to
Jim Thompson

You use the word to describe anything you hate. From you, anyway, it's become meaningless drivel.

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Keith
Reply to
krw

Is freezing a problem at Yucca Mountain?

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Reply to
krw

What makes you think they mean well?

John

Reply to
John Larkin

Al could only DREAM of selling used cars. He is the type of idiot who is sent to gather snakes for the snake oil salesman. :(

By watching him, it's obvious that a lot of snakes died after biting him.

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

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