OT Hydrogen economy, not?

Jeff Liebermann wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Heh, seriously.

I was joking ("you stole my idea!") but it *is* true that a lot fo people throw away a lot fo useable, and even *good*, things. I can't imagine that it'd be illegal to take things from the dump - all they're going to do is destroy it and bury it...go figrure... The good thing about cities with recycling is that you can often go to the center and pick up useful things. I've certainly done that, with no qualms, esp. back when finances were tighter, but I'd still go look, if we had a recycling center around here. If someone choses to look down their nose at my stuff, they can stay the bleeping bleep out of my abode. (I'm "rude" that way.)

Jim Yanik wrote in news:Xns9ADFCBCBB2EDBjyanikkuanet@64.209.0.83:

True, but in the future, people might be willing to go after the useables ;)

I recall ether is often used to start diesels. It ignites easily, so sure, why not. Diethyl ether is just barely a liquid at room temperature (BP 42°C or something like that), and dimethyl ether is a gas: it has to be stored under pressure, so it has little or no advantage over propane or, God forbid, butane (which, like DME, liquifies relatively easily in the winter).

Peroxidation is only a concern around light and oxygen (not necessarily both needed), so I don't think it's a concern for ethers in metal cylinders. Stabilizers are almost always added which essentially eliminate this risk (except for high-purity ether, only used in the lab -- preferrably used all at once, with the leftovers disposed of immediately so it doesn't sit on the shelf and go nasty!).

Tim

Yep. Much of the furniture in my house came from (illegal) salvage from the local dump. Most of it needed just some cleaning and light repair. Before it became a transfer station, a visit to the dump was a regular weekend event for the locals.

It's a mixed bag. The dump sells recyclables and such to various organizations that claim to be able to salvage the contents. In reality, it costs more in accounting and management than any revenue it generates, but it looks good on the county web pages. If I drag off anything that might be usable to these people, the employees are suppose to stop me. That became a problem when the dump was dealing in eWaste. See:

Incidentally, they also tried to stop me from taking pictures for reasons unknown. I was salvaging as much as I could steal from the eWaste pile.

The situation changed a few years ago when the mandatory lead recycling law appeared. The added paperwork and accounting now made it uneconomical to sell the stuff as eWaste. So, the county was paying the recyclers to haul off the stuff. Instead of stopping me from salvaging, I was being encouraged to haul off as much as possible.

Then, like all good things, the dump stopped separating eWaste and had everything tossed into the metal scrap bins. Argh.

There's also the issue of injury and liability which I'll pontificate upon shortly.

Sure, after all the good stuff is gone. I've seen the dump stores at various municipal dumps. If I don't get it right off the truck, someone is always there to grab it ahead of me.

I'm currently involved in a private (charitable) recycling center.

They take in eWaste, tear some of it apart, and sell it to the scrap dealers. The good stuff is sold in their store. Until about a year ago, I was able to fish stuff out of the large dumpster bins. No more. Some idiot allegedly fell into one of the dumpsters, injured himself, and sued the Grey Bears for some ridiculous amount. They settled for $25,000. Since then, they are no longer allowing salvage from the bins. I try to catch what I can before it goes into the bins, but once in there, it's gone. I've tried to arrange various alternative methods of handling, but they don't have the manpower (all volunteers) or the storage space. As always, litigation triumphs over common sense.

Drivel: 1.2% of landfill volume are disposable diapers. Yech.

...not to mention that diversion of corn makes for higher corn prices = higher meat costs (corn fed cattle), higher corn-based food costs etc. Which has already taken place...

Balanced View said environmentalists had always opposed corn-based ethanol.

That contradicted my memory, so I dug a bit for the history. Al Gore popped up on the radar.

I assume Al Gore is/was in tune with environmental-types, and would've heard their objections to corn, if such objections were being made. I heard none.

And it might be that Mr. Gore heard and ignored those cries--I don't know--but it seems more likely that he was going with the flow.

Anyway, that was my effort to reconstruct the environmental vibe vis-a-vis ethanol when it started.

If you remember differently, feel free to post some links to articles. I'd be happy to read them.

Sorry, none of that's relevant. Yelling at people, or blaming people--especially the wrong people--these aren't helpful. That other people do it doesn't make it more effective. It's not effective.

Doing or promoting things that don't make sense doesn't help either. Facts must be checked. Numbers have to add up.

If we're to make things better we have to do our homework first. And proceed calmly, rationally, politely, with the facts on our side.

I made no excuses; I simply posted some facts. Ethanol is an example to learn from. That's all. Let's not repeat it.

Best regards, James Arthur

Kris Krieger wrote in news:t9-dnWHztZCiDh_VnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.com:

the problem is that landfills leach crap into the water table. IIRC,you also have NYC that takes their refuse on barges out into the ocean and dumps it offshore.

Growing the corn is only the first step in the production process. Most farmers don't have the facilities to continue the process beyond this first step. They could buy the ethanol from a producer like everyone else, but I'm sure they look at the economics of it. They must compare the price against that of diesel.

And also consider the capital investment to buy a new tractor that can use gasoline/ ethanol instead of diesel. That investment would be on speculation that ethanol will be around for many years to come. And why scrap their current machinery unless the cost difference is truly significant.

daestrom

otoh, it's prett common to use the corn, or at least the field remnants, for heating purposes.

AIUI European farmers do grow seed crops to burn the oil in their tractors. High fuel taxes there make it attractive.

Way back I heard the Europeans were going after hobbyists, trying to collect fuel taxes on homebrew biodiesel. e.g.:

U.S. farmers get a $1-per-gallon tax credit:

Hey, if you Google "german farmer diesel oil crop tax", EVERYONE's gone biodiesel crazy--U.K., India, Germany...

Cheers, James Arthur

I only had to turn on the heat for ten days this past winter. What good would that do? I live about over an hours drive to the nearest nuclear power plant and that is well outside the range of delivering steam or hot water, anyway.

I think we may have turned the heat OFF ten days in the last year. It's 51F and foggy just now, predicted to peak at a scorching 58.

Right. In the US, most people live many miles away from power plants, too far to ship warm water.

John

But using sugar cane would have run afoul of the sugar lobby.

On that note - a co-worker told me about how, in Europe (Germany?), chemical companies would be built near each other, and would coordinate with each other in using waste heat, waste water, etc. One company's waste water could be influent for another company, for example.

Here in the US, chemical companies tend to be far from each other, so no such cooperation is possible.

Michael

It seems that you have never baked, let alone with sourdough.

That is one thing that REALLY bugs me: People who think their tiny view of the world is exactly like everywhere else, and what works in one place will work everywhere. Then they complain about attitudes?

I prefer to use an oven.

--

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in your account:

Sporadic E is the Earth's aluminum foil beanie for the 'global warming' sheep.

Excuse me, you typed "forget the chocolate". What could those words possibly mean?

I had a sticky bun for breakfast, with a double-shot latte with 6 (or was it 7?) packets of light brown sugar. I add sugar until it tastes just barely bitter.

John

ps: there are no "baby carrots." They're just regular carrots they run through a machine.

My dad used to work for Inland Container where they made corrugated paper and boxes. They needed a lot of steam, and sold their excess to other local businesses.