Need some help, what is percentage US voltages on 115V, 208V WYE, 240V?

mandag den 4. november 2019 kl. 20.29.19 UTC+1 skrev Whoey Louie:

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with two phases you can generate more phases by doing linear combinations with 180 deg you can't

in essence you have single 240 feed and a center tap

That old 90 degree two phase system was really stupid, since it would have required two pairs for both phases (L1, N1 resp. L2, N2) or a beefy N1+N2 conductor. The three phase system has just L1, L2 and L3 but no N in delta configuration..

No problem.

If the dryer manufacturers are told that only 120 V at 60 Hz is the only voltage available, would that be a problem ?

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You can yammer about terminology all you want, but please don't spread fals e information. Just check any of many web pages that will tell you the NEC position on earth connections at a receptacle prior to 1996 was that it wa s not required. That's why homes built prior to 1996 commonly used the 10-

nd no earth. I should look to see if they actually ran an earth wire to th e outlet box in which case I can change the connector without running a new wire.

Yes, it has a neutral, it has no safety ground. The neutral can break and the "ground" then becomes hot when the appliance is on. If you want to bel ieve this is the same as having a protective earth, fine. You can live in your delusional world.

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other means or does this require a new cable be run? There's a 120 volt ou tlet with a proper ground right by the 240 volt outlet. Heck, for that mat ter I could put them both in the same box, right?

What is installed is not safe as the dryer has no protective earth.

In many ways you are just a really weird dude. It is literally impossible to discuss many things with you because you refuse to consider that your little slice of the world is not the entire world.

Oh, well. No point in even trying to discuss things with you.

BTW, you can run 240 volts over the same wires you presently are running 120 volts on. Same current double the voltage, now you can use one heater. But I'm sure you have any number of reasons for not doing that.

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That should be 1.5 phases then.

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lse information. Just check any of many web pages that will tell you the N EC position on earth connections at a receptacle prior to 1996 was that it was not required.

You're the one who started yammering about terminology, yet you call an equipment grounding conductor a "protective earth". Go figure. What you can't understand is that all 240V receptacles have in fact had a ground connection for most of the last century, one way or the other. That change d in the 90s was that you could no longer use the NEUTRAL for dryers, ranges, and similar as the GROUND. Following your logic, in 1985 one could have run a new 240V code compliant circuit to a receptacle and have no ground. That's BS. If it's a circuit with no neutral, an equipment grounding conductor was required. The receptacle was 3 wires, two hots, one ground. If you ran a circuit for a dryer, which used a neutral, then using the neutral as the ground was permitted. You then had a 3 wire receptacle, two hots, and the neutral/ground. The appliance was still GROUNDED.

and no earth. I should look to see if they actually ran an earth wire to the outlet box in which case I can change the connector without running a n ew wire.

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It's grounded through the neutral.

The neutral can break and the "ground" then becomes hot when the applianc e is on. If you want to believe this is the same as having a protective ea rth, fine. You can live in your delusional world.

You;re the one spouting off, yet ignorant of the correct terminology. Again, it's the "equipment grounding conductor". And what the other poster said is wrong. He said that it's hard to find 240V receptacles with a grou nd. Just go look at all the pool pumps installed with a cord in the last half century. If they are done to code, not hacked by dummies that don't know the code or terminology, they will have two hots and a GROUND. What you se e at your dryer doesn't define the code and it's not all the 240V usage in the US.

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y other means or does this require a new cable be run? There's a 120 volt outlet with a proper ground right by the 240 volt outlet. Heck, for that m atter I could put them both in the same box, right?

That's BS and a lie. Cite for us all the deaths and Keeps calling an equipment grounding conductor a "protective earth".

It was rare to find a 240V receptacle with a ground for the last half century. (Go look at pool pumps or similar on a cord that use only 24

Dishwashers have to be installed on a cord (Total BS)

You can't buy a new dryer or similar appliance and use it with a 3 wire con nection. (Wrong, which is why dryers are typically sold without a cord and they sell code compliant cords that are either 3 or 4 wire.

Asked if he can connect the ground on one circuit to the ground on another. (That in pursuit of making his dangerous 3-wire dryer circuit "safer")

On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:37:32 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@downunder.com wro te:

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Thank you for proving my point. You are not applying definitions uniformly , instead you make them up as you go. That's not science and engineering.

Yes, because it would take a very long time to dry clothes.

That's an interesting experiment. What you did was interject noise at what is creating the two voltage sources. And I agree, the noise would show up at the same time. Now let;s do that experiment on what's generating three phase. Let's introduce an instantaneous change by increasing the field in the generator rotor. Where does that show up on the 3 phases?

If you are inside a house, how could you tell that the 240/120 circuit is coming from a transformer or from a generator or other source? If you give an exercise to students showing various sine waves and asking what the phase relationship is, do they need to know more than just looking at the drawings or a scope? They see 45 deg, 90 deg, 180 deg. Are they supposed to say, whooah, wait a minute, 180, don't know what to do with that? And all the analysis tools of EE apply to all equally. What you have coming into a house with split-phase is two 60hz 120V sine wave voltage sources out of phase with each other by 180 deg. Exactly how they were created, via a generator, center-tapped transformer, electrically synthesized, doesn't matter for purposes of analyzing it or using it.

Sure, that is ONE example of using two phases, but it does not make it the only thing that can be two phases. To do that would be like saying because one saw a red Ford truck, that's the only kind of truck that can exist, be called a truck, etc.

A dumb manufacturer would still use the same resistance and the power would drop to 1/4.

A smart manufacturer would drop the resistance to 1/4 (i.e. split the original resistor into two segments and join the two segments in parallel) and the original heat would be restored. Of course the current needs to be doubled.

On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 9:52:40 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@downunder.com wr ote:

And it would be plugged into what? Dryer locations are wired for 240v,30a. Elsewhere receptacles are generally 15 or 20a. You could put in a 50a, 1

Just get rid of your stupid split phase system and run all loads at

On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 10:58:01 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@downunder.com w rote:

I said in an earlier post that if we were starting from scratch today, we might go with 240V, that it has advantages. But there is nothing stupid about split-phase, it works well and for sure it would be insane to go fix what is not broken. And as I just pointed out, trying to run dryers and similar high power appliances that require dedicated circuits on 120V is what would be stupid. We run dryers on 10 gauge wire. You'd need 4 gauge for 60 amps, huge, costly, difficult to run, insane. No need to fix what isn't broken.

For the special case, the US market, even as low as 350 Vdc would be sufficient. From it, it is easy to generate single phase 120 Vac, split phase 240 Vac as well as 208 Vac three phase just with PWM Such voltages are typically needed for loads requiring sine AC such as induction motors.

For other lower DC voltages, simple DC/DC square wave converters could be used, no need to generate sine waves in each stage.

For data centers there is a standard voltage 380 Vdc (+/-190 Vdc) could also be used.

Some EVs have about 400 V battery voltage so using a 0 - 30 V high current on-board variable voltage booster on top of a 380 Vdc feed could be used to regulate the charging current. No special super charging stations needed.

In the rest of the world 700 - 750 Vdc would be required for generating clean 230/400 V sine for AC motors.

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% allows both 220v and 240v to be within the standard with no physical chan ge.

2. Sounds like another example of the EU imposing on the UK. Once they Brexit , they can go back to the good old days of 240v.

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-6% allows both 220v and 240v to be within the standard with no physical ch ange.

it, they can go back to the good old days of 240v.

Not at all. We never changed, so there is nothing to change back to.

John