cold

On top of that there is a thick soundboard-style insulation, then felt, then a batten system (air), then another rock wool layer of insulation. The snow would melt on the roof if it leaked too much heat but it doesn't.

Now, the single-pane windows ...

n the instrumentation that it's ever got below zero. At least I got the RTD code right.

t, you can tolerate the occasional local anomaly.

about as stupid as saying that running a good strong 50MHz through an am plifier can cause an oscillation at 25MHz.

nomalies that Joerg and John are complaining about reflect the fact that th e warmer Pacific Ocean - which we've already got - evaporates a bit more wa ter than it used to, which falls as heavier layers of snow in California in winter. Snow has a higher albedo than vegetation, so areas blanketed in sn ow are colder than they would have been without the snow (quite apart from the heat soaked up by the snow as it - eventually - melts).

analogies.

Well they had Anchorage, Alaska significantly warmer than Dallas, Texas. So meone needs to get a clue that the northern air coming out of the arctic zo ne is being replaced by warmer air from the southern latitudes. Last I chec ked there's no independent air generator source on the planet. Then since t he maniacs have tohroughly destroyed as much of the thermal mass as they ca n get their hands on, there is no damping to this chaos and the weather can be expected to swing all over the scale.

Which soundboard-style insulation is it? There are only really two being us ed with R3.5 and R6 per inch. Felt is just for water liquid runoff. Rockwoo l? Don't see that a lot in residential, it's great for fireproofing and sou nd attenuation. How thick and what kind of roofing? Not real familiar with your area, but it sounds like you're still a long way from an effective R22 ceiling, which I think would be the minimum with today's energy costs.

net, you can tolerate the occasional local anomaly.

is about as stupid as saying that running a good strong 50MHz through an amplifier can cause an oscillation at 25MHz.

anomalies that Joerg and John are complaining about reflect the fact that the warmer Pacific Ocean - which we've already got - evaporates a bit more water than it used to, which falls as heavier layers of snow in California in winter. Snow has a higher albedo than vegetation, so areas blanketed in snow are colder than they would have been without the snow (quite apart fro m the heat soaked up by the snow as it - eventually - melts).

Someone needs to get a clue that the northern air coming out of the arctic zone is being replaced by warmer air from the southern latitudes. Last I ch ecked there's no independent air generator source on the planet. Then since the maniacs have throughly destroyed as much of the thermal mass as they c an get their hands on, there is no damping to this chaos and the weather ca n be expected to swing all over the scale.

Melting most of the Arctic ice cover every summer does remove a significant lump of thermal mass, and the albedo of the ice-free bits of the Arctic oc ean is a whole lot lower than that of the ice-covered bits.

Anchorage, Alaska still isn't going to be warmer than Dallas, Texas, when a veraged over the entire year, but Alaska seems to be warming up twice as fa st as Texas as global warming progresses.

rote:

lanet, you can tolerate the occasional local anomaly.

r is about as stupid as saying that running a good strong 50MHz through an amplifier can cause an oscillation at 25MHz.

he anomalies that Joerg and John are complaining about reflect the fact tha t the warmer Pacific Ocean - which we've already got - evaporates a bit mor e water than it used to, which falls as heavier layers of snow in Californi a in winter. Snow has a higher albedo than vegetation, so areas blanketed i n snow are colder than they would have been without the snow (quite apart f rom the heat soaked up by the snow as it - eventually - melts).

. Someone needs to get a clue that the northern air coming out of the arcti c zone is being replaced by warmer air from the southern latitudes. Last I checked there's no independent air generator source on the planet. Then sin ce the maniacs have throughly destroyed as much of the thermal mass as they can get their hands on, there is no damping to this chaos and the weather can be expected to swing all over the scale.

nt lump of thermal mass, and the albedo of the ice-free bits of the Arctic ocean is a whole lot lower than that of the ice-covered bits.

averaged over the entire year, but Alaska seems to be warming up twice as fast as Texas as global warming progresses.

Antarctica is breaking loose hundreds of billions of tons of ice annually, a recent huge floe fragment, 200 ft thick and hundreds of sq miles, was put into some kind of Euro-satellite track system because it will drift around in the shipping lanes for next 20 years. That continent is pretty much the handwriting on the wall.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2013 21:51:44 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com Gave us:

I think the scientists have failed to notice that a planet that supports liquid water actually takes on water from space continually.

What we should be doing is rail gun firing tons of water up to the moon OR simply begin building a huge pyramid of ice down there in Antarctica.

We should also build reservoirs the size of Death valley for fresh water storage and get that water from the poles.

Remember... there really was an Atlantis at one time. We should strive to find ways of storing fresh water and reducing ocean sea levels. Even if it is only half a foot.

Personally, I think we are too stupid to see it, regardless of the cause, and too stupid to act on any solution.

Humans wait until it slaps them upside da haed before they take their thumbs out of their asses and commit to even a half assed stab at a solution.

NONE of you idiots are serious enough about it to get anywhere.

Humankind is doomed. For so many reasons.

planet, you can tolerate the occasional local anomaly.

her is about as stupid as saying that running a good strong 50MHz through an amplifier can cause an oscillation at 25MHz.

The anomalies that Joerg and John are complaining about reflect the fact t hat the warmer Pacific Ocean - which we've already got - evaporates a bit m ore water than it used to, which falls as heavier layers of snow in Califor nia in winter. Snow has a higher albedo than vegetation, so areas blanketed in snow are colder than they would have been without the snow (quite apart from the heat soaked up by the snow as it - eventually - melts).

as. Someone needs to get a clue that the northern air coming out of the arc tic zone is being replaced by warmer air from the southern latitudes. Last I checked there's no independent air generator source on the planet. Then s ince the maniacs have throughly destroyed as much of the thermal mass as th ey can get their hands on, there is no damping to this chaos and the weathe r can be expected to swing all over the scale.

cant lump of thermal mass, and the albedo of the ice-free bits of the Arcti c ocean is a whole lot lower than that of the ice-covered bits.

en averaged over the entire year, but Alaska seems to be warming up twice a s fast as Texas as global warming progresses.

, a recent huge floe fragment, 200 ft thick and hundreds of sq miles, was p ut into some kind of Euro-satellite track system because it will drift arou nd in the shipping lanes for next 20 years. That continent is pretty much t he handwriting on the wall.

Perhaps. Greenland is warming up faster, and if the Greenland ice sheet dec ides to slip off into the North Atlantic in large chunks, as the Laurentian ice sheet did at the end of the last ice age, it could prove very interesting.

There's six metres of sea level rise in that ice sheet, and the fresh water injection into the North Atlantic at the end of the last ice age may have been what turned off the Gulf Stream for 1300 years and gave us the Younger Dryas, which would produce lots of local cooling on either side of the Nor th Atlantic.

The fact that somebody recently made a film more or less based on this scen ario isn't an absolute guarantee that it isn't going to happen.

so, has the climate got harder, or have you got softer?

Where'd they find roofing felt in Australia?

having seen subharmonic oscillation demonstrated I'd have to agree with your words.

Home Depot, maybe?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

The connection being....?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Snow falls on Antarctica. If it didn't slide to the edges and break away, eventually all the oceans would empty out and there would be a really big pile of ice down there. Nothing new.

In a strongly nonlinear chaotic system, everything causes everything.

The scientists are right, but they're still dumb. "AGW" causes hurricanes, but so do ferris wheels.

I don't know, the house was built in 1970 but they only used the best materials available back then. All I know for sure is that we received commendation letters from the utility saying that our house performed better than brand-new eco houses in summer. But that's because the tax incentive rules for eco-friendly A/C are stupid, they only incentivize classic A/C systems which is wrong.

In winter we heat almost exclusively with wood. Anyhow, we do a walk every morning. On the roofs of poorly insulated houses you can see snow or frozen humidity layers melt faster than on ours or better insulated homes. We know pretty much which ones have cathedral ceilings.

Old rule: It is only as comfy in the house as the missus says it is :-)

That hasn't changed, she wants it 70F. My office usually sits at 62-65F in winter which is just fine for me.

On Monday, December 9, 2013 11:51:44 PM UTC-6, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wro te:

, a recent huge floe fragment, 200 ft thick and hundreds of sq miles, was p ut into some kind of Euro-satellite track system because it will drift arou nd in the shipping lanes for next 20 years. That continent is pretty much t he handwriting on the wall.

e planet, you can tolerate the occasional local anomaly.

ther is about as stupid as saying that running a good strong 50MHz through an amplifier can cause an oscillation at 25MHz.

. The anomalies that Joerg and John are complaining about reflect the fact that the warmer Pacific Ocean - which we've already got - evaporates a bit more water than it used to, which falls as heavier layers of snow in Califo rnia in winter. Snow has a higher albedo than vegetation, so areas blankete d in snow are colder than they would have been without the snow (quite apar t from the heat soaked up by the snow as it - eventually - melts).

xas. Someone needs to get a clue that the northern air coming out of the ar ctic zone is being replaced by warmer air from the southern latitudes. Last I checked there's no independent air generator source on the planet. Then since the maniacs have throughly destroyed as much of the thermal mass as t hey can get their hands on, there is no damping to this chaos and the weath er can be expected to swing all over the scale.

icant lump of thermal mass, and the albedo of the ice-free bits of the Arct ic ocean is a whole lot lower than that of the ice-covered bits.

hen averaged over the entire year, but Alaska seems to be warming up twice as fast as Texas as global warming progresses.

y, a recent huge floe fragment, 200 ft thick and hundreds of sq miles, was put into some kind of Euro-satellite track system because it will drift aro und in the shipping lanes for next 20 years. That continent is pretty much the handwriting on the wall.

eventually all the oceans would empty out and there would be a really big p ile of ice down there. Nothing new.

Not entirely correct. The GRACE satellites have been measuring the mass of the Antarctic ice sheet for few years now, and they have been losing mass s teadily.

Between them, the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets are losing about 300 b illion tons of ice per year, with about 100 billion tones of that being los t from the Antarctic and 200 billion from the much smaller (about a tenth o f the mass) Greenland ice sheet. This is maybe a millimetre or so of sea le vel rise per year, so it's not all that significant.

If the end of the last ice age was anything to go by the ice sheets will ev entually become mechanically unstable, and start sliding off into the ocean s in much bigger chunks, but nobody has any idea if or when this might star t happening.

the instrumentation that it's ever got below zero. At least I got the RTD code right.

about as stupid as saying that running a good strong 50MHz through an ampli fier can cause an oscillation at 25MHz.

John Larkin has a childish faith in labelling stuff as chaotic. The solar s ystem is chaotic, but it's predictable for a couple of million years at a s tretch.

"Weather" is chaotic, but "climate" which is the integral of weather, doesn 't seem to be.

, but so do ferris wheels.

AGW doesn't cause hurricanes, but it looks as if more global warming makes hurricanes more likely to be more energetic when they do occur.

Ferris wheels may inject enough vorticity into the atmosphere to make hurri canes and tornadoes more likely - somebody suggested that two lane highways helped create tornadoes because cars going past one another generated a si gnificant number of vortices in the atmosphere - but it seems unlikely that ferris wheels will be a significant contributor.