For fiscal year 2020, CBO's early look at the fiscal outlook shows the foll owing:
The federal budget deficit is projected to be $3.7 trillion.
Federal debt held by the public is projected to be 101 percent of GDP by th e end of the fiscal year.
To develop a preliminary view of the deficit and thus of federal borrowing, CBO took into account the estimated effects on the deficit of pandemic-rel ated legislation enacted on March 4, March 18, March 27, and April 24. CBO made a rough assessment of the overall changes in federal spending and reve nues resulting from the sharp deterioration in the economic outlook since J anuary, when the agency issued its most recent complete economic forecast.
On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 11:14:53 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wro te:
llowing:
the end of the fiscal year.
g, CBO took into account the estimated effects on the deficit of pandemic-r elated legislation enacted on March 4, March 18, March 27, and April 24. CB O made a rough assessment of the overall changes in federal spending and re venues resulting from the sharp deterioration in the economic outlook since January, when the agency issued its most recent complete economic forecast .
Just as we did in 2008/9 we are going to spend a lot of federal money to ke ep individuals and companies solvent and the economy moving. So the defici t will be very high in 2020. To keep from having such a high deficit in 20
21 we will probably need to undo the tax cuts to the wealthy.
At some point we will need to reduce the debt. I guess Mitch has an idea a bout that. What if the feds declare bankruptcy? Why should the citizens k eep bailing out the federal government?
Yeah, Mitch knows what he is talking about. Let's follow Mitch and just vo id all that debt? Oh, wait, that's not exactly how bankruptcy works is it? We'd have to go to court and determine which creditors we *could* pay off and do so by liquidating assets like federal buildings, national parks, na tural resource rights... We likely could pay off the debt entirely, but we would be a much poorer country then.
It's all Walmart's fault. They keep selling cheap stuff from China. Boyco tt Walmart and buy American.
Oh, yeah, boycott Target, K-mart and everyone else since they all sell chea p stuff from China.
Also, pass a law forbidding importation of foreign oil. Then we'd have a m arket for US shale oil at $50 a barrel.
Let the Chinese have the super cheap Russian and Saudi oil. We'll show the m!!!
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Rick C.
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ng, CBO took into account the estimated effects on the deficit of pandemic- related legislation enacted on March 4, March 18, March 27, and April 24. C BO made a rough assessment of the overall changes in federal spending and r evenues resulting from the sharp deterioration in the economic outlook sinc e January, when the agency issued its most recent complete economic forecas t.
One thing every member of Congress has in common with Trump is they were gi ven an office by public election.
One thing every member of Congress has separating them from Trump is they w ere elected by the majority popular vote will of the people.
I would say democracy is working pretty well in this country. I'd say we d id a poor job of implementing the part about electing a President which cou ld stand some fixing.
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Rick C.
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There's not that much left to tax. The misleaders have created the impressi on that the GDP is this huge reservoir of wealth they can tap into at will. But, it's not nearly as big as they make it out to be. For one thing, gove rnment spending is included in the GDP, as idiotic as that sounds. And it a mounts to typically 20-25% of GDP in a "good" year. It may go into 30-35% t erritory in the corona era. The useless fools can't sustain an economy for more than 2-3 years before something crashes, which means it's a really fli msy operation. So the kind of tax hikes you're talking about will probably kill it for a long time, and do more harm than good.
sion that the GDP is this huge reservoir of wealth they can tap into at wil l. But, it's not nearly as big as they make it out to be. For one thing, go vernment spending is included in the GDP, as idiotic as that sounds. And it amounts to typically 20-25% of GDP in a "good" year. It may go into 30-35% territory in the corona era. The useless fools can't sustain an economy fo r more than 2-3 years before something crashes, which means it's a really f limsy operation. So the kind of tax hikes you're talking about will probabl y kill it for a long time, and do more harm than good.
Yes, it's a terrible system, really bad. It's just better than all the oth ers.
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Rick C.
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ession that the GDP is this huge reservoir of wealth they can tap into at w ill. But, it's not nearly as big as they make it out to be. For one thing, government spending is included in the GDP, as idiotic as that sounds. And it amounts to typically 20-25% of GDP in a "good" year. It may go into 30-3
5% territory in the corona era. The useless fools can't sustain an economy for more than 2-3 years before something crashes, which means it's a really flimsy operation. So the kind of tax hikes you're talking about will proba bly kill it for a long time, and do more harm than good.
thers.
Increasing taxes MIGHT reduce the debt IF the extra tax revenue was used SO LELY to pay off debt. But this is not done - any new tax revenue is spent l ong before it is collected. Furthermore, we have already shifted the tax bu rden to the wealthy. The top 10% by income used to pay 50% of all federal t axes in 1980 - now it is up to 70%. A similar shift has occurred in the top 1% and top 5%. There simply is not that much money left to tax. How many m ore hours would YOU work if the government took more than half of it? The b ottom line is that politicians get elected by spending our money, not by cu tting programs.
pression that the GDP is this huge reservoir of wealth they can tap into at will. But, it's not nearly as big as they make it out to be. For one thing , government spending is included in the GDP, as idiotic as that sounds. An d it amounts to typically 20-25% of GDP in a "good" year. It may go into 30
-35% territory in the corona era. The useless fools can't sustain an econom y for more than 2-3 years before something crashes, which means it's a real ly flimsy operation. So the kind of tax hikes you're talking about will pro bably kill it for a long time, and do more harm than good.
others.
SOLELY to pay off debt. But this is not done - any new tax revenue is spent long before it is collected. Furthermore, we have already shifted the tax burden to the wealthy. The top 10% by income used to pay 50% of all federal taxes in 1980 - now it is up to 70%. A similar shift has occurred in the t op 1% and top 5%. There simply is not that much money left to tax. How many more hours would YOU work if the government took more than half of it? The bottom line is that politicians get elected by spending our money, not by cutting programs.
What percentage of federal taxes were paid by the 10% income earners in 201
5? Not sure "income" is even the right way to assess wealth. Most of the very wealthy don't have much income. They make money by capital gains whic h are not "income".
Suggesting there is not much money left to tax ignores the fact that corpor ate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing tax cuts in stituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?
We already have welfare for the poor. Do we really need it for the rich?
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Rick C.
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Suppose, just for example, that China decides to sell bonds at 5% interest. The US would have to pay 5% to refinance the national debt. Just the interest would be over a trillion a year.
There's no way to tax ourselves out of that. All the fat cats would just take their money and leave the country, as many already have. The only solution would be to print money and essentially renege on the debt, namely steal all the savings in the country and depreciate the dollar too.
Of course, our Chinese friends would never do that to us.
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John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
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Yes, that would be very bad. Good thing the Chinese don't want to pay a tr illion a year for debt they don't need.
Actually, your premise is faulty because it ignores the markets for bonds. But whatever.
Do you understand that the interest is not paid in monthly installments??? Federal bonds aren't an auto loan.
If by fat cats, you mean yourself, I would happily say, Goodbye!. Unfortun ately most of the people who think like you aren't fat cats. The fat cats who support the same issues that you do are doing it ot put money in their own pockets. They aren't going anywhere. Too bad. This would be such a n icer country if the extremists left. But then where would they be welcome?
Do what, put themselves bigly in debt? No, not very likely.
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Rick C.
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impression that the GDP is this huge reservoir of wealth they can tap into at will. But, it's not nearly as big as they make it out to be. For one thi ng, government spending is included in the GDP, as idiotic as that sounds. And it amounts to typically 20-25% of GDP in a "good" year. It may go into
30-35% territory in the corona era. The useless fools can't sustain an econ omy for more than 2-3 years before something crashes, which means it's a re ally flimsy operation. So the kind of tax hikes you're talking about will p robably kill it for a long time, and do more harm than good.
he others.
d SOLELY to pay off debt. But this is not done - any new tax revenue is spe nt long before it is collected. Furthermore, we have already shifted the ta x burden to the wealthy. The top 10% by income used to pay 50% of all feder al taxes in 1980 - now it is up to 70%. A similar shift has occurred in the top 1% and top 5%. There simply is not that much money left to tax. How ma ny more hours would YOU work if the government took more than half of it? T he bottom line is that politicians get elected by spending our money, not b y cutting programs.
015? Not sure "income" is even the right way to assess wealth. Most of th e very wealthy don't have much income. They make money by capital gains wh ich are not "income".
orate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing tax cuts instituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?
No. Corporations don't pay any 'Corporate Taxes' It is just a way to tax th e end users without letting them know the Government has its hand in their pockets. Not only that, but the Corporations have to pay employees to do th e Government's dirty work.
rporate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing tax cut s instituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?
the end users without letting them know the Government has its hand in thei r pockets. Not only that, but the Corporations have to pay employees to do the Government's dirty work.
I like the way you side step the issue. What you fail to understand is tha t lowering corporate tax does not directly put any of it into your pockets. Companies price according to the supply/demand curve and lowering their t axes only serves to increase their profits.
They only lower their prices if there is more competition and their market share shrinks or they want to take market share from their competitors... w hich may happen as a result of lower profits, but it's not automatic.
I would give you examples of cases to illustrate this, but you won't believ e anything I write anyway so why bother?
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Rick C.
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corporate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing tax c uts instituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?
x the end users without letting them know the Government has its hand in th eir pockets. Not only that, but the Corporations have to pay employees to d o the Government's dirty work.
hat lowering corporate tax does not directly put any of it into your pocket s. Companies price according to the supply/demand curve and lowering their taxes only serves to increase their profits.
t share shrinks or they want to take market share from their competitors... which may happen as a result of lower profits, but it's not automatic.
eve anything I write anyway so why bother?
Why do you bother even trying to troll? You really suck at it. First you bi tch about Walmart selling imported crap, then you want even higher prices o n Domestic products. Your Schizophrenia is showing.
impression that the GDP is this huge reservoir of wealth they can tap into at will. But, it's not nearly as big as they make it out to be. For one thi ng, government spending is included in the GDP, as idiotic as that sounds. And it amounts to typically 20-25% of GDP in a "good" year. It may go into
30-35% territory in the corona era. The useless fools can't sustain an econ omy for more than 2-3 years before something crashes, which means it's a re ally flimsy operation. So the kind of tax hikes you're talking about will p robably kill it for a long time, and do more harm than good.
he others.
d SOLELY to pay off debt. But this is not done - any new tax revenue is spe nt long before it is collected. Furthermore, we have already shifted the ta x burden to the wealthy. The top 10% by income used to pay 50% of all feder al taxes in 1980 - now it is up to 70%. A similar shift has occurred in the top 1% and top 5%. There simply is not that much money left to tax. How ma ny more hours would YOU work if the government took more than half of it? T he bottom line is that politicians get elected by spending our money, not b y cutting programs.
015? Not sure "income" is even the right way to assess wealth. Most of th e very wealthy don't have much income. They make money by capital gains wh ich are not "income".
orate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing tax cuts instituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?
News flash: income taxes are taxes assessed on INCOME. Heaven help us if th ey even enact a wealth tax (it didn't work in Europe). Wealth and income ar e not the same thing (people can, and do, spend all of their income, leavin g no wealth in the aftermath). About 70% of all federal taxes were paid by the top 10% of earners in 2015.
Corporations don't pay any taxes: their CUSTOMERS do. ALL taxes paid by cor porations are passed thru to us consumers thru higher prices.
No, undoing the tax cuts would HAMMER the economy, which is hanging on by a thread now. How many companies do you think will be posting profits in the next few quarters, anyhow?
I don't call paying 70% of ALL federal taxes welfare. That is just another liberal lie.
t corporate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing tax cuts instituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?
tax the end users without letting them know the Government has its hand in their pockets. Not only that, but the Corporations have to pay employees to do the Government's dirty work.
that lowering corporate tax does not directly put any of it into your pock ets. Companies price according to the supply/demand curve and lowering the ir taxes only serves to increase their profits.
ket share shrinks or they want to take market share from their competitors. .. which may happen as a result of lower profits, but it's not automatic.
lieve anything I write anyway so why bother?
bitch about Walmart selling imported crap, then you want even higher prices on Domestic products. Your Schizophrenia is showing.
You literally don't understand anything I say, do you? How is talking abou t how supply and demand works asking for higher prices on domestic goods?
I know I'm not trolling and I suspect you aren't actually trolling. You ju st don't have any idea of what we are talking about, so it looks much like trolling.
--
Rick C.
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hat corporate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing t ax cuts instituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?
o tax the end users without letting them know the Government has its hand i n their pockets. Not only that, but the Corporations have to pay employees to do the Government's dirty work.
is that lowering corporate tax does not directly put any of it into your po ckets. Companies price according to the supply/demand curve and lowering t heir taxes only serves to increase their profits.
arket share shrinks or they want to take market share from their competitor s... which may happen as a result of lower profits, but it's not automatic.
believe anything I write anyway so why bother?
u bitch about Walmart selling imported crap, then you want even higher pric es on Domestic products. Your Schizophrenia is showing.
out how supply and demand works asking for higher prices on domestic goods?
just don't have any idea of what we are talking about, so it looks much lik e trolling.
Well, you are right - I didn't understand "How is talking about how supply and demand works asking for higher prices on domestic goods? " at all. Cons ider rephrasing it.
e impression that the GDP is this huge reservoir of wealth they can tap int o at will. But, it's not nearly as big as they make it out to be. For one t hing, government spending is included in the GDP, as idiotic as that sounds . And it amounts to typically 20-25% of GDP in a "good" year. It may go int o 30-35% territory in the corona era. The useless fools can't sustain an ec onomy for more than 2-3 years before something crashes, which means it's a really flimsy operation. So the kind of tax hikes you're talking about will probably kill it for a long time, and do more harm than good.
the others.
sed SOLELY to pay off debt. But this is not done - any new tax revenue is s pent long before it is collected. Furthermore, we have already shifted the tax burden to the wealthy. The top 10% by income used to pay 50% of all fed eral taxes in 1980 - now it is up to 70%. A similar shift has occurred in t he top 1% and top 5%. There simply is not that much money left to tax. How many more hours would YOU work if the government took more than half of it? The bottom line is that politicians get elected by spending our money, not by cutting programs.
2015? Not sure "income" is even the right way to assess wealth. Most of the very wealthy don't have much income. They make money by capital gains which are not "income".
rporate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing tax cut s instituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?
h?
they even enact a wealth tax (it didn't work in Europe). Wealth and income are not the same thing (people can, and do, spend all of their income, leav ing no wealth in the aftermath). About 70% of all federal taxes were paid b y the top 10% of earners in 2015.
orporations are passed thru to us consumers thru higher prices.
a thread now. How many companies do you think will be posting profits in t he next few quarters, anyhow?
r liberal lie.
It's also a meaningless statistic. I just feel that taxes should be paid, dollar for dollar. Shouldn't matter if it is income or capital gains (whic h are taxed as part of the income tax). The really big money guys pays a l ower tax rate than their secretaries... at least that is that Warren Buffet would have you believe. Is he lying?
The Trump tax cuts didn't do diddly for the economy. He claimed they would stimulate the economy and produce a surplus. Never happened. Now we alre ady have a huge deficit before piling on the trillions being spent on propp ing up everyone during this pandemic.
Yup, the wrong economic thinking at the wrong time. We just leaned into a left hook all thanks to Trump.
The real irony was that Obama handed a pretty sweet economy to Trump when h e left office. All Trump needed to do was not f*ck it up.
--
Rick C.
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the impression that the GDP is this huge reservoir of wealth they can tap i nto at will. But, it's not nearly as big as they make it out to be. For one thing, government spending is included in the GDP, as idiotic as that soun ds. And it amounts to typically 20-25% of GDP in a "good" year. It may go i nto 30-35% territory in the corona era. The useless fools can't sustain an economy for more than 2-3 years before something crashes, which means it's a really flimsy operation. So the kind of tax hikes you're talking about wi ll probably kill it for a long time, and do more harm than good.
ll the others.
used SOLELY to pay off debt. But this is not done - any new tax revenue is spent long before it is collected. Furthermore, we have already shifted th e tax burden to the wealthy. The top 10% by income used to pay 50% of all f ederal taxes in 1980 - now it is up to 70%. A similar shift has occurred in the top 1% and top 5%. There simply is not that much money left to tax. Ho w many more hours would YOU work if the government took more than half of i t? The bottom line is that politicians get elected by spending our money, n ot by cutting programs.
in 2015? Not sure "income" is even the right way to assess wealth. Most o f the very wealthy don't have much income. They make money by capital gain s which are not "income".
corporate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing tax c uts instituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?
ich?
f they even enact a wealth tax (it didn't work in Europe). Wealth and incom e are not the same thing (people can, and do, spend all of their income, le aving no wealth in the aftermath). About 70% of all federal taxes were paid by the top 10% of earners in 2015.
corporations are passed thru to us consumers thru higher prices.
by a thread now. How many companies do you think will be posting profits in the next few quarters, anyhow?
her liberal lie.
, dollar for dollar. Shouldn't matter if it is income or capital gains (wh ich are taxed as part of the income tax). The really big money guys pays a lower tax rate than their secretaries... at least that is that Warren Buff et would have you believe. Is he lying?
It is sure as hell meaningful if you are the one paying the taxes. I don't set tax rates, Congress does. Capital gains taxes are actually double taxat ion because the income used to generate the capital gain has ALREADY been t axed at income tax rates. Nobel prize winner Milton Friedman thought that t he correct capital gains tax rate was zero, but explained justification for a lower rate thus:
formatting link
No, Buffett wasn't lying - he is a dyed in the wool liberal.
ld stimulate the economy and produce a surplus. Never happened. Now we al ready have a huge deficit before piling on the trillions being spent on pro pping up everyone during this pandemic.
Yup it did - we are presently generating record levels of tax revenue with outstanding economic results - until COVID hit and they shut the economy do wn. Deficits are the direct result of even higher spending by Congress.
a left hook all thanks to Trump.
No, again the economy was setting all kinds of GOOD records with record une mployment and good income growth.
he left office. All Trump needed to do was not f*ck it up.
The economy was limping along under Obama with the slowest growth out of a recession since the Great Depression (less than 1% in his last year).
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