Old Before It's Time?

Did you buy it new? (Sounds like you did) From the range of seemingly unrelated problems, it sounds like a power supply problem. What model is it?

... Johnny

Philips is now a crap brand.

Failure of the lead-free solder joints quite likely.

Graham

IS that true? Are manufacturers moving on to lead-free soldier? Is it as reliable?

Les

Read all about it

RoHS

Quoted from that URL

"The alternative solders are also harder, resulting in slow development of cracks (instead of plastic deformation, as the softer Sn-Pb solder does) because of thermal expansion and contraction as some parts heat up and cool down during operation, thus significantly impairing long-term reliability and device lifetime."

Its so reliable that it is banned in Medical, Aerospace, and Millitary applications.

Michael A. Terrell wrote: > les wrote: > >

But it's very politically correct. Having the politicians tell you how to build electronics is like going to a florist for dental work.

GG

GG

Even worse, its European politicians know it alls who wouldn't know which end of a soldering iron to pick up. The US should refuse to allow the importation of any ROHS crap.

The way consumer electronics are designed anymore, the solder won't fail before the low budget design does.

I have too often seen the horror of a 10 cent part used instead of a15 cent part or just sloppy circuit board layout and construction. I guess it's just cheaper not to care, now we can stuff the landfills with a new and improved alloy of tin.

Seriously, what the hell will be the end of all of this? Unless there is some plan in place for a 100% return of all disused or failed products for recycling I cannot see a happy ending to this cycle.

Just a little counterpoint here...I have used lead free solder in plumbing applications. It was all that was available at my hardware store when I decided to replace all the really crappy galvanized piping in my basement.

Despite my initial misgivings, it was as easy to use as leaded, and lasted until I sold the house. I know that this is not strictly on-topic for this discussion; but I did feel a little safer drinking water which had flowed through pipeage with no lead content...illusion perhaps, I guess.

jak

You don't have the different thermal expansion rates like on a circuit board, and you have a huge solder area when compared to a 0805 or smaller SMD part. Its a whole different game.

As far as safer, unless the pipe is carrying distilled water, no lead will be dissolved. A layer of calcium will cover the inside of the pipe which keeps both the copper and solder from dissolving.

Homer J Simpson ha escrito:

as long as there are powerful corporate interests at stake, whose incomes depend on continually selling people stuff, and who have enough money to buy up political power and affect legislation, things will probably get worse rather than better, unless consumers wise up and start to demand reliability instead of cheap prices. And with the masses born and bred in the morinc consumer mindset, (try asking any teenager to carry round a mobile phone older than about 1 year and see what kind of response you get!) how do you think all that is going to turn around? not without a genetic mutation it isn't!

-B-

b wrote:

The problem with bad solder joints was the reason RCA/Thomson issued special repair kits for use when an RCA TV with an onboard tuner was being serviced. The solder used when the set was originally manufactured would crack under heat and flexing, so a special type of solder (more flexible) has to be used when repairing these tuners, especially when resoldering the grounds around the tuner after the job is completed. Many RCA/GE TVs of recent vintage suffered major problems with the EEPROM jungle IC when these joints failed, causing noise to get into the chip and destroying the programming. Today's Thomson-made TVs do not have this problem since the company wised up and started mounting the tuner separately from the main chassis. I speak from experience on the tuner ground problems with the earlier Thomson sets, as I had to have mine repaired a few months after I purchased it; the RF port snapped off the tuner PCB, requiring that the technician remove the cover from the underside of the chassis which meant, of course, unsoldering the original ground points. He fixed the connector, resoldered the ground points, and that was the end of the problem. The TV has been working like a champ since, almost seven years now. It's doing so well, in fact, that I expect it will be around to see the new TV standards come in 2.5 years from now or thereabouts unless the CRT or some other part goes, which I doubt; the set makes a great picture on cable right now.

BTW (slightly OT), in response to your comment about "ask any teenager to carry around a cell phone more than a year old and see what you get": Kids today are no different from kids of any other generation. They want what their friends have, and if what they have is newer, the kids are going to feel slighted. This is the 21st century version of "keeping up with the Joneses," only with kids it's worse because teenagers, especially, are very competitive and don't want to have "stale" or "old" technology when their peers have the latest things; for example, what teenager today would be caught dead with anything less than an MP3 player for music? I read not long ago where even CDs are considered by today's kids to be old technology belonging to the 20th century. Cassettes? I doubt if many, if any, of today's teens would know what an audio cassette is. Eight-track tape is even worse. Show a teenager an 8-track cartridge today and he or she will likely be floored; try to tell these kids that (and cassettes) are what kids their age in the '60s-'70s listened to and you will get the same response, more or less. I grew up in the late '60s and '70s (I'm 50 years old now), so I grew up with 8-tracks and cassettes, but trying to tell a teenager in this century about this technology, which most kids today think is about as close to "the stone age" as one can get (their term for it is, or at least was, "yesterday's news"), may get you nowhere fast. Even the method by which kids pass notes in school during classes these days has changed; when I was in school 30+ years ago it was done on paper, but today's kids use cell phones and text messaging--more often than not behind the teacher's back. I saw an article in my local newspaper the other day about this change, which some (even many or most) schoolteachers and principals would like to ban because it takes the kids' minds off what they are actually in school for, which is education.

Jeff Strieble, WB8NHV (email addy not shown to deter spammers) Fairport Harbor, Ohio USA

Jeff, WB8NHV spake thus:

Heh; just a little older than you, so I wonder what those kids would think of reel-to-reel-tape. (Or the wire recorder I once had.) At least some of them know what LPs are (and still use them for disco purposes).

SNIP

Not quite sure what you mean by this....

It can be read as; "if the pipe IS carrying distilled water then lead and/or copper WILL be dissolved."

I feel that this is not what you intended so some clarification is needed.

Most domestic plumbing these days is either in copper pipes or plastic listed as suitable for potable water. Lead free solders are mandatory for domestic plumbing nowadays but such was not always the case.

Here is an article on lead in drinking water as it relates to Australia.

Distilled water will dissolve trace amounts of the metal over time, but normal drinking water has enough dissolved minerals to prevent this from happening. It will create a thin coating of minerals that cover the inside surface of the pipe, preventing any of the metal from being in contact with the water. HAve you ever seen a really old piece of pipe used to carry water? I've seen pieces that had less than a 1/8" opening in a 1" I.D. pipe. The walls had built up a layer of minerals so thick that water just dripped out with the faucet wide open.

Drinking water has some trace minerals, so you don't have to worry about it, unless the water is slightly acidic.

The article you cited was about lead pipes, which is a whole different animal, with millions of times the amount of lead in contact with the water. Also, lead pipes are soft, which doesn't help.

Did you know that some early water mains were hollowed out logs coated with pitch, and buried under city streets?

I have had to run TV transmitters with closed, distilled water systems. From time to time they had to be cleaned with Citric acid, or Tyglos, then purged, flushed twice with tap water, a third flush with distilled water, and then filled with distilled water and industrial antifreeze. Even after 30+ years of daily service, there were no signs of erosion inside the copper pipe or brass fittings in an RCA TTU-25B transmitter I moved and rebuilt. .