Getting matching transformer from telephone

But 600 miles of "baseband amplified circuits" at VF frequencies will leave you with nothing but noise.

It appears that you worked at the customer premise location and saw only the drop equipment.

And you have no idea what was in between.

Yes, most were. But not all. It was relatively easy to use a double wide channel, or use a groupband device that took up 48 KHz.

So you think an equalized audio channel over cable would, after 600 miles????

Even by the 1930's they were using phase locked oscillators (for example L carrier systems used a 64 KHz pilot to for frequency synchronization).

I worked for about 20 years on carrier systems designed in the 1930's, and never saw a single instance of a system going off frequency.

I have a book here that is definitive. It is the 1938 edition of the Bell System publication "Principals of Electricty Applied to Telephone and Telegraph Work".

A fold out chart (page unnumbered) between pages 192 and

193 shows cable characteristics for just about every common cable used at the time. The highest characteristic impedance shown (at 1000 Hz) for a non loaded cable is 19 gauge NLS at 470.1 Ohms.

There is not one single cable shown as +/- 10% of 600 Ohms.

On the other hand, on page 190 there is a chart showing open wire characteristics, and more than a third of the configurations shown have an impedance within 10% of 600 Ohms.

Do see above! :-)

Repeat coils. The common designation on the device itself was "Rep. Coil".

You've never worked in the telecommunication industy?

See above for why buzz words won't get it in this conversation.

75 Ohm impedances are virtually *only* used for unbalance coaxial circuits at baseband levels for carrier systems. It is *never* used for audio, and is never used with twisted pair cables that extend past the end of rack a unit is mounted in.

Obviously not.

--
Floyd L. Davidson 
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              floyd@apaflo.com
Reply to
Floyd L. Davidson
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Your description is quite correct. *Every* cable pair would have been terminated in a repeat coil of some kind, for a number of reasons. The primary reason is longitudinal balance, next would be DC isolation and/or impedance matching.

An interesting history on that too, as pre-WWII that type of device was typically far larger than necessary, but with efforts to save iron the WWII era designs were all smaller and lighter. After WWII the design criteria changed to saving space to allow smaller overall size of equipment.

--
Floyd L. Davidson 
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              floyd@apaflo.com
Reply to
Floyd L. Davidson

I figured the Europeans had never seen the wiring of a typical US desk set. I probably have a couple hundred networks from 2500 series

1A2 series WE & Stromberg phones. I still see a few 1A2 systems in use, and have been giving away the last ofd the working spares.
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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

I'm waiting to see your guesses to *both* questions :-)

Hint: both answers relay on the fact that the lines are straight analogue from end to end.

--
Stuart Winsor

For Barn dances and folk evenings in the Coventry and Warwickshire area
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Reply to
Stuart

Your ignorance stands out like a shining beacon on a dark night.

There never was or has ever been a need for a transformer in a phone.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

What meds are YOU on ?

Reply to
Eeyore

They weren't using something that resembles a single pair of Cat 5 back then.

As I said, it's HISTORICAL only and of no practical value.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

General Post Office.

Reply to
Eeyore

Which is why it's 100 ohms or so just like Cat 5 etc.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

So much donkey arrogance, so little intelligence.

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Unfortunately has has NO CLUE about the characteristic impedance of twisted pair cable as used for telecoms.

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"UTP is also finding increasing use in video applications, primarily in security cameras. Many middle to high-end cameras include a UTP output with setscrew terminals. This is made possible by the fact that UTP cable bandwidth has improved to match the baseband of television signals. While the video recorder most likely still has unbalanced BNC connectors for standard coaxial cable, a balun is used to convert from 100-ohm balanced UTP to 75-ohm unbalanced."

*** 100-ohm balanced UTP ***

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Quite so !

Absolutely not. About 100 ohms.

Via 'Post Office Telecommunications'.

He has made that evidently apparent.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

RIGHT !

Do the damn sums.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Alexander Graham Bell despised optocouplers as much as he did demented British donkeys. Something about a 50 year plus lead time for engineering samples. Someone who actually understood anything about audio design would have known that though...

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Correct. It is in fact the classic 'characteristic impedance'.

Only on long circuits which were treated differently.

Only ever seen that in a fax machine I helped develop for Xerox (RXEG) and the hybrid part was done with differential amps, NOT the transformer. MUCH cheaper.

I have never seen a transformer in ANY phone including the carbon mic type which also 'draws power from the line' to power the mic as you say.

How do the clowns think they determine ON and OFF HOOK ?

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

True.

But that is NOT the 'characteristic impedance' and will vary depending whether you're 100m from the exchange / C.O. or 5km !

I appreciate your other information but it sure isn't the way we do things here in the UK.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

pair

security

WHat does that have to do with what Floyd was discussing? As usual, you change the subject in an attempt to cover your ignorance.

Any other time you damn anyone for using Wikipedia as a reference, but when it suits some of your ignorance...

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

You really are stupid.

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Michael A. Terrell

No, you build monstrosities, then brag about them.

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Oh dear, you need educating.

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What do you think "Coil,Induction No20" is?

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Stuart Winsor

For Barn dances and folk evenings in the Coventry and Warwickshire area
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Reply to
Stuart

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