Residential Electric problem

The next time the lights go out, have the tenants make a note of exactly which fixtures don't have power. Try all light switches, go outlet to outlet with a lamp or other plug in device known to work and take inventory of which outlets have power and which don't. If you are not familiar with wiring, take this information and give it to an electrician, it will help them trace the problem. If it is always the same light fixtures and outlets, chances are there is a loose wire nut or other connection problem. Could be a bad breaker. Could also be a bad wall receptacle. Your house doesn't have aluminum wiring by any chance, does it?

While the power is good to all parts of the house, find the circuit breakers to find which one controls the part of the house that is going dead. Make sure that breaker is good... is seated correctly in the breaker panel, contacts are in good shape, etc. Of course, if that breaker is intermittently making contact in the panel, have an electrician clean the breaker panel contacts and replace the breaker. If the contacts are pitted or burned, that's likely your problem.

If the panel and breaker are good, see if there is any part of the circuit in question that keeps power while the rest is dead. Likely the culprit will be a loose connection within a receptacle box, a wall switch box or lighting fixture (ceiling boxes) that feeds the part of the house that is going dead. Remember that house circuits are mostly series circuits. The breaker panel feeds to a box, which is then connected to another box, then to another, etc.

Find a time when the house is very quiet, and preferably dark. Listen for any sizzling sounds coming from within the walls of the rooms that are serviced by the breaker. If there is any arcing due to a loose connection, you might be able to hear the sizzling, or maybe see the faint flashes when the arcing is happening.

Next thing you can do is to locate all the receptacles being serviced by the breaker and feel the outside of each switch, receptacle and lighting fixture. If any are warm to the touch, suspect a loose connection within.

I found out shortly after moving into my house in 1976, it had aluminum wiring. The wires has been stuffed into the quick connect holes in the switches and receptacles. Over the next few years, I had recurring power outages... same as you are having. I found that the aluminum wires were being pitted by the current flowing through the rather weak connections. Replacing every switch and receptacle in my house and attaching the wires to the screw terminals fixed the problem permanently. All of the offending switches and receptacles were either arcing internally or were very hot to the touch when I found the bad ones. You might be experiencing a similar problem.

Hope this gives you something to go on.. I know electrical problems can be frustrating, especially if you're the landlord.

Cheers!!!!

The trick is to find out if all the failures are associated with just one breaker, and if all the outlets/lights on the breaker are failing.. If that is so, then it is a matter of chasing down the breaker to first outlet on the string or else looking in the breaker itself. If the failures are all on one breaker, but not all the lights/outlets on the one breaker fail, then you will have to go into the circuit and segment it looking for where the open is happening. The odds are good that it is in an existing junction of some type, not an actual failure in the main wires - romex or conduit. BTW, is it alumuinium, and romex or conduit???

H. R.(Bob) Hofmann

Thanks Dave for your suggestions. I will follow through and let you know how I resolve this.

Thanks for your suggestion Bob. It is not aluminium, it is romex.

I had a similar problem with my wife's house. It was very frustrating. Old house with an auxiliary panel installed outside serving the kitchen/dining and living rooms. Her refrigerator would cut out - I could find nothing wrong, professional electrician ditto, utility company ditto.

Don't just check the breaker, swap it with a known good one. Our problem turned out to be the breaker the first time it happened and there was really no indication it was failing - until I opened it up and saw the contacts . . . A breaker will only set you back about $10 US. By sheer dumb luck the breaker malfunctioned just when I was there with my meter . . .

Second time it happened I was all set to replace the breaker again but this time one more outlet was affected - and her clothes dryer (but the dryer is old and develops its own problems - so I discounted that symptom) - and again, the silly thing would be working whenever I was out there.

This time nothing worked, she had a pro out, utility company out, etc. For months it would come and go.

This guy at work had one of those "non contact infrared thermometers" I borrowed it to play with. Pointed the thermometer at the bus strip that serves the breakers and sure enough it was 120 C when the power was on. I called the utility company out and had them pull the meter so I could work on it.

The connection was flaky where the big service wire comes in to one side of the panel. It had probably been like that for ages and cooked the breaker causing it to fail prematurely.

They didn't have just the bus strip for sale and I wasn't about to replace the panel. I took it all apart and sanded the pitted area down and found a lug at the hardware store to replace the bad one.

The utility company person was very accommodating. I showed him what I found and what I wanted to do (and that I wasn't comfortable working on the circuit live). He broke the seal, pulled the meter and showed me how to slip the plastic insulators over the meter contacts to break the circuit (while the meter was plugging the hole in the box). He gave me a new seal to use when I finished.

Romex can have aluminum conductors. You need to actually see the ends of the wires.

I had a 60's-70's era house with alum> Thanks for your suggestion Bob. It is not aluminium, it is romex.

Thanks you for your feedback. I will replace the breaker. Now a dumb question, I will turn off the main switch and pull the breaker switch and pulg in the new one. I think I can just pull the breaker out, is it connected to wires?

I had a similar problem a while back when asked to find out why very occasionally a fuse would blow for no apparent reason. Resetting the fuse put the supply back on. This went on for some 18 months.

Quite by chance it was discovered that the problem occured only when the occupier was walking along a ceratin spot in the passageway.

Lifting the floorboards showed a nail had been hammered through a cables insulation and the extra pressure of a footstep was enough to

make the nail touch both live and neutral.

Jay,

You're not addressing the issue, which involves only ONE section of your residence...only one. The utility company can't help you because there's been no outage to the entire building...ONLY one section. The main breaker is not the issue. That controls the entire house, so it's the same as the Utility company situation. You have juice past there, or *nothing* in the house would work.

You must isolate this one circuit which is problematic. One way of doing that would be to simply turn off the breakers--one by one--until the problem is duplicated. This will point you in the right direction.

Again, the issue is in a branch circuit. Ignore the main breaker. Find out which branch and you're halfway there.

My feeling is that possibly one BRANCH circuit breaker is at fault. It could be as simple as removing and replacing that breaker. It could either be defective, or simply not fully seated into the breaker box. It could also be an issue with a loose wire.

An experienced electrician could diagnose this; but you would do well to isolate the problem before calling him. Do not neglect this, as it indicates a loose connection somewhere! Where electrical connections are intermittent, there is always a spark when they make or break, ie FIRE HAZARD!

jak

Thanks for your feedback Jak. I've isolated the breaker switch and two experienced electricians looked at it. One removed all of the breaker switches and checked all of the wiring behind these breakers and I think he switched the breakers around. This was good for a couple of months and I thought the problem was fixed. The same section of the house is effected. I'm not an electrician by any means, I can do minor tasks, remove, replace switches. Can I turn off the MAIN Breaker Switch to the whole house, pull the branch Branch circuit breaker at fault out and replace it with a new one? is there anything that I should be aware of ? are there wires attached to the breaker switch or will just pull out with ease, do I have to tilt it up or down when it is pulled? or does it come out straight?

Thanks for your feedback Jak. I've isolated the breaker switch and two experienced electricians looked at it. One removed all of the breaker switches and checked all of the wiring behind these breakers and I think he switched the breakers around. This was good for a couple of months and I thought the problem was fixed. The same section of the house is effected. I'm not an electrician by any means, I can do minor tasks, remove, replace switches. Can I turn off the MAIN Breaker Switch to the whole house, pull the branch Branch circuit breaker at fault out and replace it with a new one? is there anything that I should be aware of ? are there wires attached to the breaker switch or will just pull out with ease, do I have to tilt it up or down when it is pulled? or does it come out straight?

It will have one wire attached with screw terminal. This is obviously not the problem, however. The electrician should have fixed it, or been called back.

There is a connection down the line from the box which is intermittent. If it's possible to trace the wire from the box, do so; but your best bet is to let a professional do it for you.

One thing's for certain: you do have a problem, and it must be fixed. If one electrician cannot do so, then call another (and don't pay the first one)

A suggestion: if pulling the breaker to affected area turns off MORE things than the actual fault condition, it's possible that the wiring through some outlet/light fixture/junction box/whatever, is 'daisy-chained' (ie wired in series) with the rest, and is faulty. Replacing just that one fixture would then solve your problem.

If the fault cannot be found by visual inspection, then the affected branch wiring might actually need to simply be replaced, as this is a possible hazardous condition.

I wouldn't let this go for long....

jak

There's a panel that comes out exposing the wiring to the breakers - usually one screw holding it in at the bottom. Take care that you don't allow the panel to hit a live circuit when removing or replacing it.

The breakers have a wire connection to the load side and just plug into the supply side. Turn the breaker off. Loosen the screw holding the wire,. pull the wire out. Pull the breaker out by pulling on the body on the side the wire was on - it pivots and comes out.

The panel determines the type of breaker you need (or just change it with one of the same value that is working). They are mostly Square D or GE in this area.

On our panel the only way to turn off the power was to unplug the meter - most service entrances have a big mother switch/breaker at the top of the panel that will turn off all the breakers, no need to yank the meter just to turn off the power.

Stay safe. Avoid being grounded while working with just one hand in the panel if at all possible. Use insulated tools and hold the insulated portion of the tool. Wear safety glasses and have a friend nearby. Clear the area around the panel - you want to be able to get away without hitting something should the need arise. Wear shoes with rubber soles. Avoid grasping (wrapping your hand around) switches or electrical parts - one finger, an open palm or fist is safer - when possible. If you don't feel comfortable doing it, don't. It is safer and sometimes cheaper to hire someone with experience.

Think, check and double check, take your time and keep both eyes wide open - good safety and troubleshooting advice.

Respect electricity, check it with a meter after visually checking the switch position.

My uncle used to say, "there's only two things I know about electricity: ya can't see it, and it'll kill ya." He was a machinist.

Thank you for your excellent suggestions.

Determine what appliances (tenants and/or permanent fixtures) are being used on this circuit. Other potential problems you have not mentioned:

Loose wire nuts in cable boxes on this circuit. Bad fixture on circuit Bad appliance on circuit.

gb

In a house I rented for a while, I had a problem where the contact where one of the breakers clipped into the panel had oxidized and started arcing. I came home from work one night and the porch light was flickering, realized soon that everything on that circuit was flickering and out at the service panel I could hear a zapping and smell electrical burning. Had to clean up the bus bar with an air powered die grinder and replace the circuit breaker, there was only one other space in the panel and it had obviously previously suffered the same problem.

I've seen the terminal screw in the breaker become loose too and cause a circuit to lose power, and I've also encountered several cheap backwire receptacles where a wire has come loose and caused the rest of the circuit to lose power. I never use the cheap push-in backwire outlets, only the screw terminal or screw clamp type.