Electric Problem

Hi Sean, It would help to see where these points went. Usually the mopeds disconnect the ignition primary when the key is off. If your moped has a battery, the on position may allow for lights/horn. In simpler setups the off position shorts the magneto so the bike can't start. You did a great job displaying your situation but I would need to see where the connections go. Make, year, and model of the bike might help. Tom

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your help. I only have a rough idea where the connections go as it's tricky to see. All I have been able to ascertain at present is that the red and black wires originate from the battery, the green powers the lighting and the black/white, I have no idea what it does. I will try and look in more detail to try and figure out exactly where these wires terminate which may give a better clue as to what is happening.

Regards, Sean

I almost forgot, the make is a Sukida SK50QT, year is 2006. (It's an import)

Sean, This is a brand new bike. Are you just expanding your knowledge or do you have a specific problem? If you would like to see what is happening with the switch positions, connect a voltmeter to ground with the black and touch the red to the ignition coil and see what position of the switch causes 12 volts to appear. Do the same with the lights, etc. Tom

Unfortunately, my bike was damaged by thieves and they stripped the ignition barrel of all it's wires so all I'm left with are the wire and the ignition points.. So now I am trying to work out which wires go to which pointa on the ignition.

I would suggest that you ask the distributor of that bike for a wiring diagram.

I did, but they couldn't tell me. They said each ignition was wired differently. I still don't understand the reasoning behind that, unless of course they just want me to buy a completely new ignition which besides the cost, I would also have the inconvenience of having a new set of keys just for the ignition.

ignition

bike.

a

If you want to risk it then (briefly) connect the Red to the Green can you then switch the lights on?

If so then it seems that R should connect to 2(or 4) and Gn should connect to 4(or 2). Leaving Bk/w to connect to 3 (if it is a kill switch) and Bk to connect to 1/5 (assuming you earth the kill switch).

Cheers Robin

Thanks Robin for your advice. I am thinking the 2 +12v connecting together sounds logical, but I'll ponder it a little longer before attempting it.

My main concern is causing more damage than has already occurred so If anyone else can confirm what has been said, it would be helpful

Thanks for everyone's help so far.

Regards, Sean

ignition

bike.

a

Terminals 2 and 4 are the equivalent of a typical on/off switch. If you wire the green and black to them, the headlamp will turn on when the ignition is on. Can you give us a photo of the switch from the side? There may be more to it than appears at first glance. I'm wondering if it is attached to the square looking thing beneath it. It could be that there is a relay unitized with the switch. Look for a low resistance (far more than 0 ohms, far less than completely open) connection across the contacts with your ohm meter in all possible combinations. Also, physically trace that white/brown wire to see what it connects to.

Logic says that the ignition switch somehow interrupts the coil's primary circuit when it is off. With the switch off, use your meter to read the voltage on the coil primary, first with respect to ground, then with respect to +. You may find that the coil is wired directly to the + on the battery, and that the other side of it (the coil) goes to the ignition switch.

My guess is that red goes to 1, black goes to 2, green goes to

4 and white goes to 3. I'm guessing that there is a relay coil between 1 and 2. You can't wire it up that way on a guess! You need to determine that there is a unitized relay; that its coil is wired to 1 and 2; and that the ignition coil is directly wired to battery +.

One more point - it is easy to get decieved when trying to use a meter to trace the circuit to the coil primary, because the breaker points are in series with one side of it.

Ed

I'm probably missing something here but if green is +12v and black is -12v, wouldn't it short something? Others have suggested connecting green and red to these points which are both +12v. I guess there maybe more to the inside workings of the ignition barrel which I am unaware of. I am just very cautious something going to go bang!

Here's a side view of the ignition:

I also have a wiring diagram of my bike which may be useful as I don't understand much of it at all and couldn't even locate the ignition or thr wires!:

(You may have to save it too hard disk and view it with a normal viewer as IE resizes it smaller)

I've spent an hour trying to figure out what's what and all I found was a thick black wire which appeared to be grounded to the chassis which connects to the ignitions black wire. I don't if that helps.

Regards, Sean

Yes, there is more to it. First, if this is a 12 volt system, you do not have +12 and -12. Next, you said that the green wire measured +12 and is connected to the headlamp. Therefore, the circuit has to be this: Battery +---Headlamp----green--- switch If you measure the green wire at the switch end with nothing connected there, you'll get 12 volts.

Others have

The points aren't +12 volts - the wires are.

I guess there maybe more to the inside workings

That (caution) is *good*.

That reinforces - but does not confirm - the suspicion that there may be a relay in there.

That helps, some. Please describe how you start the bike. I did not see a starter pushbutton - I'm wondering if the ignition switch is like a car ignition switch, where you turn the key on, and then turn it farther to start. Do you start the bike by turning the key?

On the diagram is a box with 4 circles in it below the battery, like this: (View in fixed font) --------- | | |o o o o | --------- | | | |

Can you label the wires with what is on the wiring diagram in your reply? It was not clear on the jpg.

There are two connections to the coil - which is labeled "high pressure parcel" on the diagram. Where is the other one?

Can you locate the starter relay? What color wires connect to it?

Ed

No, I just turn the key to the ON position and hit the electric start button.

Starting from the left, it's Yellow/Red, Yellow/Red, Black/White and Green.

I have no idea i'm afraid. It's very tricky to see because the engine is under the bike and the paneling is tricky to get off. I was trying to find the spark plug but have yet to find it.

I am presuming the starter relay is next to the battery in which case, there are 2 connectors, 1 is a 2 pin plug which has Red/Black and White/Black and a 4 pin plug with 3 wires which are Black, Blue and Black/Yellow

Regards, Sean

On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 21:47:18 GMT, in message , sean scribed:

Find the maintenance manual for this scooter and it will reveal the dark secrets of which you seek.

Ok. If you can't get to the parts, we can't trace the wiring. Can you go to one in the showroom and look at how the wires connect? Or ask one of the mechanics?

Ed

it's on the handlebars. follow the wire labled y/r from block labeled "left handle switch" to an unlabeled block that is apparrently some sort of interlock that disables the starrter when the engine is running.

this bit in fact...

looks like Y/R Y/R B/W G

It seems to be labeled "staring relay" near the top of the diagram. note that it is powered via the brake light switches so the motor cannot be started unless the brakes are applied.

a branch of the black-white wire is drawn to the instrument cluster but this appears to be an error as it branches where I think wires should cross

the tail lights and headlamp seem to be powered by 1/2 wave rectified AC... only the stop and turn lights are powered by DC.

Bye. Jasen

That unlabelled block is the one I drew below - I think it's the ignition switch. I can't tell for sure if the label on the wires on the schematic is y/r - not clear on my screen, but y/r is what I would guess. I can see that the y/r (assumed y/r) wire connects to the starter relay coil, but I still can't see the starter pushbutton. Is the wire to the left of it connected to the pushbutton, and is that the rectange with an arrow touching the bottom? The wire looks like the label is B/V, but in the boxes at the bottom I can't find B/V.

What is the other wire labelled on the starter pushbutton? Can you read the schematic symbols in the boxes at the bottom? In the left box, the arrows must be turn signals; the trumpet must be the horn; what are the other two? In the right box, I don't know any of the symbols except the circlue with lines radiating which I assume is headlight.

I want to know if he can find the physical relay, not the relay on the schematic. The way I figure it, he will have to be able to locate all the physical components involved in order to ring out the wiring, since the diagram does not label the ignition switch, and what I assume to be the ignition switch on the schematic does not match the wire colors he has that went to it.

How about the left wire on the oil sensor that might be labelled Y/W - trace it across to the left and it is labelled what might be B/W or R/W. That re-confirms to me that I can't guess the color code based on the blurry labels I see on some of the wires. Or it's an error on the diagram. Either way, I get lost.

You can trace it better than I.

Ed

On 2006-06-11, ehsjr wrote: ]

do you mean the starter switch?

the ignition switch is the bit under the "itch" of "left handle switch" (which I'm guessing means "left handlebar switch cluster")

the wires are labled B,G,R, and B/W which seems to match with the observations.

the only difference is there's two green wires in the diagram but they are connected together,

on the switch two of the 5 terminals are connected together, so that corresponds fairly well.

Y/R is the second terminal from the left on the "left handle switch" connector at the top of the diagram

ignition coil and spark plug

headlight ("front big light") high and low.

yeah the one above is the tail lights and the "front small light" above that is lights off, (I'm assuming a three-position switch)

at the bottom is the starter button. something with a "rotation arrow"

the "oil sensor" is afaict looks to me like it might be a fuel level sensor at the other of the wire attached to it is a mystyerious symbol on the instrument cluster.

L/W on the left table seems to correpond to B/W on the diagram

Bye. Jasen

Thanks. I meant the ignition switch, but in light of your explanation, I was wrong.

Ok, that makes sense.

You can read the diagram a lot better than I.

Thanks for the help. Ed