He who is JF Mezei said on Wed, 3 Jan 2018 12:56:27 -0500:
Everything you say is apropos, where nospam, as a classic Apple Apologist, tries to intimate because all phones have batteries, that this Apple-created Apple-only problem is inside of all phones.
That's like saying because all houses have paint, that lead paint is in all houses if it's in just one house.
I don't know why facts are invisible to the Apple Apologists, but nospam knows very well this is a specific problem for specific phones, just like the Samsung exploding battery problem was a specific problem for a specific phone.
As you aptly noted, Apple *knows* exactly what the problem is, and since the solution is to fix the design, they decided to secretly take the simpler way out ...
And for that, I predict they'll need to settle those lawsuits out of court and then, when they have that behind them, they can come clean and just make the customer harm good.
Hence I predict the following along that strategy:
Apple won't admit fault until they settle the lawsuits in court
Once they settle, the settlement will dictate the redress
I postulate that a perfectly acceptable redress for the owners harmed is for Apple to provide a trade-in program of old phone to slightly larger equivalent phone that doesn't have the same Apple battery problems.
Apple has enough money and customer loyalty to pull this off with aplomb. Let's see if they take the true "courageous" decision.
He who is JF Mezei said on Wed, 3 Jan 2018 12:54:04 -0500:
Except that it's not normal for a phone to shutdown in the cold. :)
I applaud you for being able to see facts.
You're not an Apple Apologist because your observations and opinions are sane. Certainly no Apple Apologist could say what you just said.
IMHO, Apple spent more energy on how to hide the battery issues after they were found, than on testing for them prior to launch.
The Apple battery recall was the right thing to do, just as any other manufacturer would recall a defective device.
Again, you have the ability to see facts which appear to be invisible to the Apple Apologists.
Apple was "incredibly specific" about the first recall issue but incredibly vague about the 10.2.1 "fix". There's a reason for that since nothing happens at Apple by accident.
Apple made a conscious decision to hide the facts, which will be proven in court if the cases aren't settled out of court sooner.
This is an interesting fact, where even Apple said there were multiple problems that the customers found for them since Apple doesn't test their devices long enough in the real world to find them on their own.
This is a good point, in that there isn't any engineering mystery here like there was, initially, in the Samsung exploding battery recall ... so, it's odd then that if Apple engineers knew what they were doing, then why did Apple feel the need to *secretly* halve the performance of the CPU.
Do you think the engineers planned this all along?
Ummm....mmm... this makes sense. Nothing happens at Apple without MARKETING knowing about it - as it's one of the most successfully marketed companies on the planet.
It could very well be that, just like in the Volkswagen situation, MARKETING decided the final specs, and engineering couldn't do it - so they had to shoehorn in the secret halving of the CPU just to meet the spec.
I know that the handful of (155.7 x 80 x 7.4 mm) $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus phones I bought for Christmas as gifts has a 3200 mAh battery, as does the (159.7 x 78.1 x 7.6 mm) LG V20, while the (158.2 x 77.9 x 7.3 mm) iPhone 7 Plus has only a 2900 mAh battery (about 10% less capacity).
Maybe that tenth of a millimeter in thickness is what cost Apple customers that 10% loss, out of the box, of their battery capacity?
I agree that it's a technical problem to test for "battery aging", and I note that Apple went to extreme lengths to try to imply that all batteries aged as fast as the iPhone batteries aged.... but it's a fact that this problem that they felt the need to secretly throttle cpu speeds to less than half within a year of use happens only on Apple devices, and only on some of them.
So, no matter when Apple figured it out, the fact remains that they decided to "solve" their problem by secretly halving CPU speeds, which is what they're being sued for (rightfully so).
What I expect them to do is:
Not come clean until they can settle the lawsuits out of court
Then the lawsuits will dictate a proper remedy to the customer
Hint: Charging the customer to replace a defective battery is a lousy remedy by all accounts.
I have to disagree with your replacement lifecycle of 2 years, as I get far more than that out of my phones. So do plenty of other people.
It's only Apple customers who have been trained to think a battery lasts only two years. Did you see the Samsung statement I published for example? It's a completely different expectation of battery life cycles.
In practice, the Android phones that have non-removable batteries (Nexus 5 was given away and is still working fine and the Google Moto G is also working just fine) I gave as gifts years ago are still going strong.
My observation is that it seems only Apple customers feel that a battery needs to be replaced after only two years of use. It's like saying a car needs to be replaced after only two years of use. The perception works to the manufacturer's advantage only.
Like Volkswagon, they hit upon the "elegant" solution, but it was so elegant, and cheap, that they had to do it secretly. :)
I think Apple knows all the solutions where they took the "elegant" (secret) way out.
Now that the cat is out of the bag, I hope they just design the phones for the batteries and vice versa. It's ridiculous that only Apple phones are
2-year replacement items. It's like having cars being replaced every two years. It's wasteful.
"Gosh, I KNOW, right? And anyone who calls out a racist for being a racist *is* racist, y'all!"
Bullshit reasoning. The asshole currently known as "Harry Newton" has been trolling the Apple news groups and belittling complete strangers in them literally for hours a day for years now. He constantly changes his name to avoid kill filters and pollutes the otherwise peaceful Apple news groups with lame trolls filled with lies and misguided opinions. Here's an incomplete list (and counting) of his names:
Paul B. Andersen, Adair Bordon, Liam O'Connor, Juan Camilo Blanco, Alphonse Arnaud, Danny D., Vinny Perado, Whitney Ryan, Tony Cito, Adam H. Kerman, Werner Obermeier, Steven Bornfeld, Winston_Smith, Mitch Kaufmann, Paul M. Cook, E. Robinson, Alice J., P. Ng, Tam Nguyen, VPN user, Joe Clock, Marob Katon, Chris Rangoon, AArdvarks, Conradt, Gustl Hoffmann, Henry Jones, Tatsuki Takahashi, AL, Horace Algier, Karl Schultz, Arthur Conan Doyle, Algeria Horan, Horace Algier, Raymond Spruance III, Martin Chuzzlewit II, John Harmon, Yanis Bernard, Stijn De Jong, Abe Swanson, Misha Vasiliev, Tomos Davies, Chaya Eve, Lionel Muller, Roy Tremblay, Frank S, Chaya Eve, Blake Snyder, harry newton, Harold Newton
Multiple regulars in these news groups call him out on his lame-ass trolls. But little, old *you* have decided to step in and support the troll. Good work, there, junior!
--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.
JR
No, I'm just calling it like I see it. You jumped into a reasonable conversation making five (not four, my mistake) posts complaining about troll behavior without indicating what was "trollish". Now you want to argue about your trollish behavior and call me names. You are currently the problem, not a cure. Why don't you stop being a troll and we can let the conversation continue?
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Rick C
Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998
Also, the cross posts to unrelated groups, and groups where he anticipates some sort of support, and/or validation, are a pretty good clue as to the trollish nature of posts from the Santa Clara nymshifter.
There has been nothing reasonable about this conversation. It's been 100% Harry against the world. And anyone that even slightly disagrees with him is called a variety of names.
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"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
The source of the troll is the OP not JR, and guess who the OP is in this thread. None other than the nymshifting troll from Santa Clara County. He provides nothing constructive, just his never ending anti-Apple posts. I for one have decided to not respond to him, particularly given the toxicity, and of his posts to the Apple NGs.
Recently I have responded to one of his posts to r.p.d. which appeared to be benign, and where he had used yet another nymshift. I did not believe that particular post was a troll, but one which sought an answer to a legitimate question.
On the contrary, your vaunted so-called "reasonable discussion" is part of a campaign of pure troll posts about iOS throttling functionality that was initially cross-posted to irrelevant newsgroups (sci.electronics.repair, and android) by a well-known nym-shifting Apple-hating troll with a LONG track record in the Apple newsgroups of attacking complete strangers merely because they call him out on his lies. Either you are unaware of this, or you are actively ignoring it. Either way, you're wrong.
Post counts for this thread (at the moment):
Harry: 16 (Under two different nyms, at that.) Others: 15 Me: 4 (Oh my! This is a problem!)
Others have done a sufficient job of both debunking his lies and calling out his trolls in this thread, but I guess they don't count for you. Or do you not read anyone's posts but mine and "Harry's"?
If "junior" offends you, I'm sorry but you're a snowflake. Grow a thicker skin. It was meant to convey you are new to the Apple news groups; and I have little doubt you are since I don't recall seeing your posts here in many years. If you think "junior" is bad, you should see what the troll currently known as "Harry" has to say about the regulars in the Apple news groups that call him out on his lies. It'll no doubt blow your fragile mind. ; )
Projection. Stop supporting established trolls.
--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.
JR
Some people (you, for instance) need a clue-stick liberally applied before they *get* it. The likes of Jimmy Neutron are not common, but they are much like Kudzu or Crown Vetch - once rooted, very difficult to expunge, and hi ghly destructive to native life. Accordingly, a certain amount of vigilance is necessary as there are always innocents out there ready to be victimize d. The proper approach is to salt the earth around him such that he cannot set those roots. There is no defending such - I suggest you look up the fab le of the fox and the scorpion. It is Newton/Neutron's nature to be a troll , and nothing you can do will change that nature. Don't feed it, don't supp ort or defend it, just burn the roots, salt the earth, and move on. And if you cannot do even that much, stay the hell out of the way of those *with* the flame-throwers and salt-spreaders.
Yet another application of the Clue Stick is required.
Ignoring known trolls works for those who know of and understand the troll. But that emphatically does not work when the troll attempts to root in fre sh ground. And, there is always fresh ground. Glad that you will be ignorin g things - that will let those who are willing to warn the unwary get on wi th it, without the likes of you attempting to validate the troll.
This isn't my first rodeo. I've seen a number of ham groups destroyed by this sort of behavior. One person is accused of being a troll, but they aren't really a problem. They make their posts and people either read them or ignore them. The problem arises when vigilantes try to "deal" with the problem by turning the topic from the original to being about the accused troll. Instead of solving anything, they make the problem 10 times worse.
That is what's going on here. I was reading the thread and considering the issues in the discussion until someone threw a turd in the punch bowl. The presence of the "enforcers" is more disruptive than the original thread. It should be very easy to killfile the offender and/or the entire thread.
Oh, but then someone on the Internet would be wrong without knowing it!
formatting link
I've killfiled JR, we'll see if the problem improves.
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Rick C
Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998
First, there has never been a reasonable conversation with the person to whom Roger was responding He really is an inveterate troll with nothing to add to this newsgroup. I have kill filed every nym that he uses that's identifiable and will continue.
We each have a decision to make regarding trolls. In this case JR has decided to point out the troll. That is effective in warning other posters.
You will be missing some interesting and edifying posts if you ignore Roger.
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