New(ish) FPGA Company

I hadn't heard of this company before. They seem to be making a number of FPGA devices. Unfortunately all the docs are in Chinese. Anyone know much about them?
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Google can translate the web pages, but not the data sheets.
Rick C.
Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit
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There's them and another company called AGM, all the parts are fairly cheap:
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Skimming the datasheet diagrams looks like what you'd expect for a low-end FPGA (Cyclone, Spartan kind of family). 55nm is as small as they go.
Their Tang Dynasty tool looks interesting - as a Quartus user it looks very familiar (I note their download page has 'quartus' in the page title). Might be worth trying sometime.
Theo
Reply to
Theo
Some companies are not easy to deal with. AGM seems to have English information but the one device I can use with FPGA+MCU has a Chinese datasheet with a different name. I also don't see any tools. Where did you see that?
Rick C.
Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit
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I didn't run it, just downloaded the first link and skimmed the PDF inside the RAR. For all its cloning of Quartus' GUI, it looks fairly simple.
I wouldn't expect any meaningful interaction with them, unless you speak Chinese.
Theo
Reply to
Theo
Yeah, all the tool info seems to be in Chinese. If they were cloning the iCE40 devices there would be open source tools potentially.
Rick C.
Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit
I always wanted to learn a foreign language. Maybe now is the time.
Rick C.
Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit
I'm a bit surprised at the lack of response... hello... Is this mike on?
I would have thought FPGA people might get excited about a 16 kLUT FPGA with an embedded MCU for under $10. I am... sort of. But I haven't started my Chinese lessons yet.
Rick C.
Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit
I'd get interested if they have timing driven place & route. The silicon technology isn't that difficult.
Jim Brakefield
Reply to
jim.brakefield
On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 6:12:16 PM UTC-6, snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wro te:
er of FPGA devices. Unfortunately all the docs are in Chinese. Anyone kno w much about them?
on?
with an embedded MCU for under $10. I am... sort of. But I haven't start ed my Chinese lessons yet.
I'm not worried about them being better than the other FPGA companies. I'm pretty interested in the parts being pretty inexpensive and available in e asier to use packages. I'm not sure what it will take to get contract asse mbly houses to buy direct from Asian suppliers. Since they are on the hook for building working boards they can be a bit funny who they buy parts fro m.
Rick C.
Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit
No, I am not excited. 10CL016 is 17 USD on digikey in quantity of 1. Which probably means pretty close to 10 USD in quantity of few 1000s. And if the quantity is lower than few 1000s then I probably don't care if it's 10 UDS or 17. 10CL016 comes with datasheet that I can read and with development tools that I can trust.
If you propose me "40 kLUT for 5 USD" then there is a chance that I can start to get excited.
BTW, as far as variable cost goes "40 kLUT for 5 USD" is pretty easy at 28nm or better. The problem here is how do you recover NRE. One have to sell more than 10M units. Probably much more.
Reply to
already5chosen
How about 10k LUTs for $3.29 @500, data sheet in English?
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Is that at all interesting?
Rick C.
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Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit
Looks like a clone of EP4CE10 == 10CL010. It could be interesting if they are compatible at bitstream level. Otherwise - less so.
But despite practicality I wouldn't count a manufacturer that managed to clone 9 years old Altera chip as new(ish) FPGA Company.
Reply to
already5chosen
Why is bitstream compatibility between two Asian company products important?
Rick C.
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Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit
Since when Altera/Intel is Asian company?
Reply to
already5chosen
Ok, it's official. We are not having the same conversation.
Rick C.
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Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit
On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 3:04:29 AM UTC+2, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com w rote:
rote:
ing a number of FPGA devices. Unfortunately all the docs are in Chinese. Anyone know much about them?
.
this mike on?
kLUT FPGA with an embedded MCU for under $10. I am... sort of. But I hav en't started my Chinese lessons yet.
of 1.
1000s. And if the quantity is lower than few 1000s then I probably don't ca re if it's 10 UDS or 17.
nt tools that I can trust.
at I can start to get excited.
easy at 28nm or better. The problem here is how do you recover NRE. One ha ve to sell more than 10M units. Probably much more.
Otherwise - less so.
ed to clone 9 years old Altera chip as new(ish) FPGA Company.
ortant?
I suspect, we are not belonging to the same branch of the Multiverse. In our branch we have thingies called "web search engines". The most popula r of them is called "google". It's so popular that its name became a verb. So, in (on ?) our branch, when somebody does not know what is EP4CE10 he/sh e googles for it. Then the person easily finds out that EP4CE10 is a low co st FPGA from Altera Cyclone IV-E family released ~9 years. If the person is still interested he/she googles for 10CL010 and finds out that it is another name for the same chip given to it by Altera (which in t he mean time was acquired by Intel) when they decides to rename several SKU s of Cyclone IV-E to Cyclone 10-LP and to reduce their prices. Comparing datasheets it's also pretty easy to come to conclusion that AG10K F256 is the same chip as EP4CE10F256. That's how it works in (on?) our branch of the Multiverse. But yours is pro bably different.
Reply to
already5chosen
Is that at all interesting?
What are you trying to prove.
You've said Altera/Intel is Asian company.
I would be reluctant to make that assumption without some further evidence. I've used your google and I haven't come across any article or claim to say they have the same bit stream.
If you find some I will be happy to eat humble pie.
--
Mike Perkins 
Video Solutions Ltd 
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Reply to
Mike Perkins
Reread the conversation. I never said that.
I didn't say that either. I wondered, if it is the same bit stream or not. The chip is obviously the same design, but it is possible that they made small modification to cause bit stream to be incompatible. For example, for legal reasons.
Reply to
already5chosen

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